In this episode of the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, hosts Jeff Sarris and Jill Harris discuss the role of oxalates in foods and how they affect kidney stone formation. They emphasize that individuals do not need to eliminate oxalates entirely from their diet but should focus on balance and moderation. The conversation highlights the importance of including fruits and vegetables while being mindful of oxalate levels, particularly in relation to meat consumption and its potential risks for kidney stones. The hosts encourage listeners to transform their lifestyles for better kidney health and provide resources for managing dietary choices effectively.
Takeaways
- You do not have to be zero oxalates.
- Get your calcium needs met, because calcium helps lower your oxalate.
- Eating fruits and vegetables is essential for health.
- You can eat a variety of foods while managing oxalate intake.
- Meat has zero oxalate but can lead to other issues.
- Balance is key in the kidney stone diet.
- Avoiding certain high oxalate foods is important but not restrictive.
- Lifestyle changes can lead to significant health improvements.
- Many people can prevent kidney stones with proper diet.
- Resources are available to help manage kidney stone prevention.
00:00 Understanding Oxalates and Dietary Choices
02:35 The Importance of Balance in Diet
05:52 Meat Consumption and Kidney Stones
08:44 Lifestyle Changes for Kidney Stone Prevention
Which Foods Have No Oxalate?
Which foods have no oxalate? Let’s talk about that.
So oxalate, that’s always the big question, but what can people eat? What maybe has no oxalate or maybe has oxalate and is okay to eat?
You Don’t Need Zero Oxalate Foods
Yep, okay, so this is interesting because a lot of people will come to the Facebook page or my website or they’ll email me and they’ll say, “Jill, I’m doing my best to eat foods that have no oxalate but I’m really sick of chicken. What can I do?” And so let me tell you this, guys. I think the most important thing for you to understand is you do not have to be zero oxalate. So I do this for patients and my students. I say, “Here’s a bank account. I just deposited 100 milligrams of oxalate there it is. Here’s your debit card because you’re a grown Doreen and you can figure out how much oxalate is in a food. You go to kidneystonediet.com and download your oxalate Harvard oxalate food list so you can clearly see whatever food you’re choosing to eat and how much oxalate is in it.”
Now you all go there and you think if something has five milligrams of oxalate you can never eat it again. That is not true. I’m giving you a hundred milligrams of oxalate. You get that replenished every single day. And so if you want a sweet potato, which is a little higher in oxalate, have a sweet potato. Subtract it from your balance, and as long as you’re not overdrawn, you could have whatever food you want. Get your calcium needs met, because calcium helps lower your oxalate, and you’ll be good.
Meat Has Zero Oxalate (But There’s a Catch)
But as far as a food group, what has zero oxalate? That would be meat. And every vegan and vegetarian just did a big sigh and got a Kleenex to wipe their brow because they’re very upset about this. Okay, so for people who eat plants and no meat, there’s plenty of fruits and vegetables and even whole grains and beans that are very low oxalate. Nuts, you can eat all of these things. If you have 100 milligrams, look at how much Harvard says the food is. Eat it within the portion size. Not a problem. And again, if you’re choosing a higher oxalate food, make sure you’re pairing it with a non-dairy calcium source or a dairy calcium source, and you won’t have issues.
Do not look for zero oxalate foods. 100 milligrams of oxalate a day is actually a lot. Most of my patients get around 60, and they’re not curbing their oxalate. Here’s, I would rather you almost get up to 100, because that means you’re eating more fruits and vegetables.
I Want You Eating Fruits and Vegetables
So a lot of you come and you’re just like, “Well, Jill, I’m just going to be on a carnivore diet because I don’t want any oxalates.” I am on a mission to get people to eat more fruits and vegetables. The minimum is one cup of fruit a day and three cups of vegetables. And most people in this country are not getting that minimum. I can’t tell you how many people come to me and say, “Jill, I don’t like vegetables.”
Please stop saying that to yourself guys. The produce section is the biggest section of the grocery store and y’all are just wheeling right by it real fast. Do not do that please. I want you to eat fruits and vegetables. There’s plenty of low oxalate and even medium oxalate fruits and vegetables that you can be eating. By the way, I don’t take away any fruits on a low oxalate diet. I take away zero fruits and only like few like spinach and rhubarb and cashews and almonds, those are the only things I take away. Very, very limited. I think there’s less than six foods that I totally tell you do not take, because it’s going to break your oxalate bank.
So you never have to worry, “Okay, well, what is it, Jill?” Get your Harvard list at kidneystonediet.com, download it so you can clearly see. Get your control back. I mean, the thing that bothers me the most is that when you guys come to me or we’re doing a consult together, the anxiety that you have over this is just skyrocketing and it’s causing you so much stress and you feel like you can’t eat so many foods and that’s so far from the truth. So when people work with me one on one, they come to me so panic-stricken and by the time they get off the phone, they’re just like so much calmer because now they understand after talking to me. And if you’ve watched a lot of our videos, you don’t need to work with me. You could just watch these videos and really take to heart what I’m telling you about oxalate. And I promise you, you’re missing out on foods that you can absolutely eat.
So you mentioned meats being zero oxalate. And like you said, you could see someone saying “Perfect. That’s all I’ll eat.” But there’s, as always, there’s a catch. There’s a catch with specifically red meat.
The Problem with Too Much Meat
Yes. Well, all meats and a lot of people I’m glad that you said that because I’m glad because it will remind me. A lot of people will think just eat meat. So I have had people that say, “Oh my God, my doctor told me to eat more meat because it has zero oxalate.” Doctors have actually said that. So patients come to me and they got a new stone, a uric acid stone. So when you eat too much meat protein, that can lead to a few things that will show up on your urine collection.
A low urine pH, because now your pH is very acidic, and uric acid stones and also calcium oxalate stones love an acidic urine. You can lower your urine citrate, that’s not a good thing, and you can also increase urine calcium. So believe me, I have a lot of paleo and carnivore people that have come to me with stones. So that, I’m so glad you brought that up, Jeff, because people are so worried about oxalate, they’ll switch over to a paleo lifestyle, and then they get uric acid stones.
And so there is a meat protein goal on the Kidney Stone Diet, and Jeff has a wonderful tool on the website at Kidney Stone Diet that you can figure out how much meat protein, not total protein for you bodybuilders that are worried about this, but meat protein. If you have uric acid stones, and even if you make calcium oxalate stones, there is a limit of how much meat protein, and meat protein is not just red meat. It is fish, it is seafood, it is chicken, it is turkey, it is pork, and it is ground beef. So all meat is under that.
You know, growing up in the 60s and 70s, whenever we were told watch meat for heart disease back then, the doctor would tell us red meat. So patients my age, and even your age will still consider when we talk about meat that it’s just red meat. It’s all meat in the kidney stone diet. We don’t want you to overeat it. Can you have it? Yes, of course. We all need to make our protein goals, but not tons of it. So the kidney stone diet does have a goal for that. And you can find it at kidneystonediet.com.
It’s About Balance and Helping Everyone
Yeah, it’s all a balance. It’s the portion not perfection. And that’s why it’s not just cut out spinach and almonds. But if you’re new here, if you haven’t been to kidneystonediet.com, head on over there. All of the goals are listed right on the site so you can understand in more depth and more detail exactly what it takes to prevent stones. And then you can dive deep with the All Access Pass, there’s a kidney stone prevention course, which dives into each of the goals specifically in depth. So you know everything that you need to know. There’s the meal plans, there’s everything else you can find there to prevent future stones. So that’s why we’re here. Like Jill’s worked with thousands of patients, like one-on-one thousands. And the crazy part is through this platform, tens, maybe over 100,000 at this point, patients, which is bonkers to think about. But the goal is to reach every single stone former. We’re talking millions of people. The only way to do that is through resources like this that we can sort of distribute to the world. So if you find it helpful, share it with a friend who also needs to know this. That’s the only way a podcast like this grows.
Change Is Hard But Worth It
You know, it’s interesting, too. I’m just going to say this. So I have a lot of patients that say, “Oh, Jill, I told my aunt Betty, I told this one, I told that one. They’re going to call you.” And I’m always like, “No, they won’t.” Because I’ll say this. This is why I say that. I’ll ask, “Did Aunt Betty have a lot of pain?” “No.” Aunt Betty’s not going to call. And this is because it means a lifestyle change. And until we suffer as human beings, it’s really interesting. We tend not to change. And I can’t tell you how many stone formers I worked with that they’ve had stones for 20 years. And then the 21st year, they lost a kidney. And then they’re like, “Now is time.” You know, I mean, it’s just so interesting.
I’m not just talking about kidney stones all day. I’m talking about how do we change a lifestyle, which is so interesting to me, because human beings have a really hard, me too, changing habits. You know, most of you have grown up for years eating the same thing, decades. And now all of a sudden, I’m asking you to change all that. But I promise you, if you go at Kidney Stone Diet, we have transformation page. And it’s amazing how many people lose weight. Their A1C is lowered. They just, all the things that happens to them. They feel better. They’re back in control of their health, their life. And if you follow these goals, they’re just healthy goals. You really will transform your whole life. I know that sounds dramatic, but I’m telling you what I’ve experienced in all these decades. So it’s something that I love talking about, but it is hard. And I’m always very honest about that.
You’ll see social influencers and all the people on the internet say, “Do this, do this, lose 30 pounds in two weeks.” And everyone gains it back. That’s not how transformation works. It’s long, there’ll be many days you want to give up. That’s okay, that’s normal. You just get back on track as soon as possible. Look, it’s hard what we’re asking you to do, but if you do it, you will be so happy and so fulfilled and so proud of yourself and you’ll just feel so much better, whether you’re 40, 50, 60, 70, 80. I’ve helped people change their lifestyle in every decade, so I’m looking forward to helping you.
Up to 80% Prevention Rate
We are on a mission to help as many people as we can. This is why we do YouTube. Millions of people make kidney stones. Millions of people should be able to stop it. Now, one more thing. Not everybody. Some of you have medical conditions that will predispose you to form kidney stones, but up to 80% of you can stop up to 80% recurrence. So get on the diet, get your 24-hour urine collections and work like hell so you never make another one of these darn things again.
That’s a perfect spot to wrap. So we will see you next week.
Bye everybody.
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