Does Kratom cause kidney stones?

This week, Jill answers a listener question about kratom, oxalate, and if it’s safe for kidney stone formers.

Jeff Sarris
Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and live your best life. I’m your host and fellow students, Jeff Sarris

Jill Harris
And I’m Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Let me tell you something, I’m going to start on a sad note. Jeff doesn’t know I’m gonna say that. So my mom was a big fan of this show. She died September 1. And it was a relief because she has been suffering so much. And so it was very expected. Anyway, so I was going through her things. And you know me, what did I want diamonds and pearls? No, I got her flannel pajamas, all of them. So happy to have them. I went through some of her letters and personal things she wrote. And why I’m bringing this up here is because she called in a couple times to the show. And she was over the top number one fan of the show.

She didn’t say much of it to me. But I know my mother, so I know she was okay. So when I was going through some of her letters in one of her notebooks, and I took them was she wrote out what she was going to ask us on the show, so she prepared. And if you know my mother, well, you know me. So you know my mother part of her anyway, the ham. So I know my mother, she wrote it was a script, what I’m gonna ask what you might say, then I’ll tell her whatever. And then she’ll said it was all written now. So I thought that was the funniest thing. And it said, Jeff and Jill show questions to ask and then a script. And I was like, isn’t that sweet? I don’t even know what it is. My mother was performing. She wanted to get it right. She you know, that’s who she was. Me. I don’t write nothing. I just improvise. Improvise. So we’re totally different people that way. But I just thought that was the sweetest thing.

Jeff Sarris
It really is. Yeah. And to like, just discover that just. Yeah, I mean, it was always so sweet when she would call into because he could just, you could feel how proud she was of you and everything.

Jill Harris
Jeff, don’t let her fool you though. And I know she’s listening from wherever. Don’t let her fool you. She wanted to get on the show. She’s like, Oh, you’re doing a YouTube show. I should have known them. Because the first right away she got a pen and paper out. Starting to write ideas down. My mother won to be on the screen. mean it’s hilarious. So I just wanted to bring that up. She was a huge fan. Huge fan.

Jeff Sarris
Well, yeah, I’m so glad we got to sort of like immortalize her voice through the show me.

Jill Harris
Yeah, me too. So it’s funny because I’ve listened to some of those shows. Since she’s died. And yes, it’s it provides. I always tell people and it’s funny. I didn’t talk to my mother much on the phone. We’re really not phone people. But I visited her obviously, but it’s because she lives only 45 minutes away. But I always tell people like when when my son was little, a friend of mine said tape his voice now, Jill, because when he’s a grown man, you’re gonna forget this voice. And I did. And I’m so grateful he did that. I have like recordings My Father has sent me he’s still alive. But I never taped my mom’s voice like, you know, on a voicemail or anything. I didn’t save it because like I said, she didn’t really call me.

But I we do have her on the show. So it’s pretty friggin amazing. And they were they were great little shows too. So look for those guys. You can meet my mother on the YouTube show. And subscribe in memory of March. And I know people are like, really, Jill. You’re bringing up your mother who’s gone. And now you’re telling us that subscribe? Well, now we have to Yeah, you do. Because Margaret would have been very happy. She would say why don’t people subscribe to you? I submit that, you know, not everyone wants to so please do it. That’s how you can make me feel better subscribe, because they would have made my mom happy, quite frankly. Anyway, so that’s what’s new. And I’ve been dealing with that. Like I said more of a relief than anything else. And so

Jeff Sarris
And just so people know because it was because she had gotten progressively worse over time.

Jill Harris
Yes. And from my mother, she had mouth cancer for her not to be able to talk well That was a problem. Here’s one more funny story indulge me. So my stepdad, her husband, who Oh my God loved, love loves her. He said one day she was very frustrated, but she couldn’t she really couldn’t talk, right? So she got my mother was a smart woman, she got the Comcast remote, and started typing what she wanted to say on the TV. And he called me he’s like, you’re not going to believe what your mother did. I believe everything, because to take mom’s voice away is to take our heart away. So yeah, you know, damn, well, she’s going to find a way to communicate. Oh, my God, my mother was something special. That’s for sure. in many different ways. So this show is this show is for you mom watching me from heaven, or wherever you are. Absolutely. So anyway, shall we segue from that,

Jeff Sarris
So we’ll dive into the question this week. And this is from a Lawrence.

Listener Voicemail
Yes. Hello, Jill and Jeff. Your videos are very informative. Thank you so much. From the bottom of my heart. My name is Lawrence caustic. I’m calling from Carnegie Pennsylvania. I just have one quick question about kratom. an herb for pain and anxiety. I’ve been taking it since February of this year. And recently, I watched one of your videos that were done a couple of months ago or whatever. And one in the comment section. Someone asked in there right out of the blue does kratom high in oxalates. So and then there was a reply, it says that they said, between five and 19 grams of kratom could be high in oxalates. I take 20 grams of kratom every day for pain and anxiety. But if you could answer this question, I’ll stop taking it if it’s if it’s high in oxygen, but you know, we’re like Joe says cut it curb it down. But thank you so much. And I’ll be looking forward to maybe watching another podcast and you know, in hearing the answer. Thanks again. Both you guys. You’re wonderful. Take care. Bye.

Jill Harris
What a kind sounding man. Absolutely. Lawrence, you’re very kind sounding and that warm my heart. So thank you for calling in. Credo Lawrence. I don’t know. I you know, whoever replied to the YouTube channel. And because I’ve been I’ve been busy. I haven’t. I haven’t looked at the comments in the last couple of weeks since my mom died. So I’m behind in that. I definitely would have said something and I will go make sure I do comment on that. We don’t have any reliable source on how much oxalates in kratom. So I don’t know. Now. It must be working for you for your pain and anxiety. So it’s hard for me to say continue taking it. It’s working for you. I know that I do. And I’m not I am not suggesting you change a thing. My answer to Lawrence is I don’t know if it has oxalate in it. I guess I would say to what form are you taking it? I would isn’t there several forms that one can take? I really don’t know Jeff.

Jeff Sarris
Yeah, I don’t know enough about it. I just I have a very surface level.

Jill Harris
Yeah, me too. I know that I know that I took kratom once full disclosure because I’m I die tell it like it is. I took kratom once when it first came out. When I was going through my cancer stuff my chemo it did nothing for me except make me anxious. Again. This is my this is like six years ago now. So and maybe I didn’t know what I was doing and I picked the wrong kind bla bla bla so nothing against kratom God bless. But I’m just not sure so where that comment came from and where where that information that resource came from I see nothing under PubMed or NIH and those are that’s where I get my you know, that’s where I look I don’t look under Reddit. I don’t look under ABC kratom.com I don’t look in I look for you know, quality resources. So I don’t know. I do know I take CBD before bed. I know a lot of my patients take melatonin and magnesium citrate and all kinds of things. Calm down. I personally like CBD. I’m not telling you nobody to do nothing. I’m just telling you what I do. I like CBD comes from Verma Farms it’s a good quality CBD it really relaxes me at night without any without any THC.

So I’m not crying. Can you imagine me high people? And God bless. If you guys want to smoke pot, do what you need to do. That’s one of my I don’t care what you do, but but the CBD I use it as an oil. The reason I bring that up Lawrence is that may help you to oils, a very very little Oxley very little if any in oil. So if you can take kratom as an oil, I don’t know what your what form you’re taking. Maybe it might be the form you want to change. I want you to call or write in a comment under this video, what form of kratom you’re taking, and I can even answer you more on this channel. I don’t I don’t judge anybody for the forms of pain relief, anxiety relief, there is no dogma, there is no judgement if somebody needs something. To relieve anxiety, I always suggest talking to a therapist, if you can afford it. I have one. Damn right, I ordered one up when I was going through all my mother’s illness for the last several months ordered it up. If you need something to sleep, talk to your doctor. Meditate, deep breathing, I have this thing my therapist suggested last week because I am having trouble sleeping I’m under a lot of stress.

And so look this up on YouTube folks, it has been very helpful to me. So free therapeutic advice for those of us, especially nowadays, especially right now in our world, this is being recorded the be in the middle of October. So there’s a lot going on in our world. There’s this thing called Box breathing from the Navy SEALs. And it’s a wonderful, wonderful thing to decrease stress help with your parison. But the parasympathetic nervous system going crazy, right to make yourself feel better. And it’s it goes like this, and then I’ll shut up about it. But it’s been really helpful for me. It’s think of a box like this. And you can like I said, Google it and it will give you the image. You do four breaths up. 1234 Hold it 1234 release it. 1234 Hold it 1234 And then start over four seconds, four seconds, four seconds, four seconds. So deep breathe in, hold it for four seconds. debrief. Hold it. Hold on, Jeff.

Jeff Sarris
I think I know. So it’s a four second cadence for each step. Right. The four second breathe in for a second hold for a second breathe out for a second. Pause.

Jill Harris
Thank you. Okay. Yes. And it really, really works. And the other day I was I was really wound up. And that I did that all day long walking the dog. Well, I mean, it really helped me. So I suggest it. But on this channel, we say whatever works for you, works for you. So if you want to do kratom I don’t know how much oxalate is in it. I’d like to know the form you’re doing. It could be absolutely fine. I don’t know. As far as you know, if you need meds, talk to your doctor therapy, talk to your doctor. I say all this because I know as a patient myself with my illness, with illness comes a lot of anxiety a lot. Then you add on all the shit that’s going on in our world. And at some point, the anxiety is just wow. Right? So being ill, daily life stressors, world events can be very scary. And so we need healthy coping skills. Not in the form of over eating, binging not eating. You know, we need healthier coping skills. I have lots of things on my blog for stuff like this, because I’ve dealt with a lot of anxiety due to my illness specifically, but then, you know, we all go through certain parts of our lives are more stressful than others. So, Lawrence, I’m really happy about your question.

I wish I had a better answer. I’m just not sure. But when this video airs, put in the comments what form you’re using. And honestly, if it’s oils or gummies, I just I wouldn’t think there would be much oxalate in it. And between the time this I think this video may air tomorrow, but I’ll research a little bit more because Jeff asks me these questions on the fly, but there’s no good resource to tell us. So the answer is I’m not sure does that mean I want you to stop using kratom? Not if it’s working for you. Does it mean that maybe you can find another form that can work equally as well? out in a tincture or an oil with that might be better and make me feel a little happier about my answer. Yes. But what’s really important is that whatever method you’re choosing, is working for you. So that’s really important. I’m not going to dismiss it. I just don’t know how much oxalates in it. So when that happens, you know what I say, Lawrence? Because you’re somebody who watches the show. But make sure I’m not going to say Porsche not perfection, because you have a certain dose and you’re doing it every day. But I am going to ensure you to make sure you get your calcium needs met every day, of course, that helps lower oxalate. I just don’t think Lawrence it would it would have a lot of oxalate in it. I really don’t. That’s my answer. I really don’t think so. Would

Jeff Sarris
you consider? I mean, it would I guess it would be sort of a lot. But would you ever recommend someone who’s really curious about something like this to maybe go off, do a urine analysis and then go back on or anything like that, I mean, it’s a lot of money to do both. But I’m just, what

Jill Harris
I would do is, if you’re going, I wouldn’t tell them to do a urine collection just for that, because it is expensive to do a urine collection if your insurance or not, is not paying for it. So what I would say is when you do a urine collection, for those of you who are worried about something you’re doing, and how much oxalate it may be adding to your diet to your numbers on your 24 hour urine collection, please do that thing on the day of your urine collection. Except vitamin C. Okay, don’t don’t use vitamin C, there’s some vitamins that can screw up your urine collection results. And they don’t want that to happen. Okay, so whatever it says, but nobody’s gonna say don’t do kratom you can do kratom and see when you do your urine collection. And Jeff, it’s a great, it’s a great question. You’re even asking because Lawrence, do you even have high oxalate? Do you know? Have you done a urine collection? Is oxalate your issue in making kidney stones? So there’s that?

Jeff Sarris
Yeah, but I think that was a great question. And it also sort of hits home too. A lot of times people will be like, Oh, I’m the expert, I have to have an answer for everything. And that’s something I always have respected about, like how you do what you do, is, if you don’t have the answer, you’re not making one up. You’re not just you’re not going on Reddit, and seeing what people are generally saying, because that’s not how you get the right results. So we really appreciate you Lawrence for calling in because there are people who are going out and finding information that could be right. Could be wrong, but we truly do not know yet. Yep.

Jill Harris
And I think for anybody who is an expert in their field, they become that way, not from knowing everything. They become that way for really knowing a lot of information on a very specific topic. And so I’m always the first one to say I don’t know about a lot of things. This I know. And also, it’s my integrity and character. My daddy taught me all this, it’s like, you know, I’m going to be the first one to say, I don’t know, because people come to me because they trust me. And so I’m always going to be honest, because I don’t I take that very seriously. You know, when supplement companies come to me, well, Gil, endorsed this because people trust you so much. Why do they I’m not endorsing it because I because they trust me because I’m not I’m not bullshit. I’m telling you. I’m saying what I know. And you know, there’s no money in the world that’s gonna make me ever do anything that I don’t believe in. I just how many hoodies could I buy? I got enough. I don’t know, what do I need? I got dog food. I got my apartment. I got food. I’m good. I don’t need lots of money from endorsing. I will. It is very doubtful that I will endorse anything for the general public to prevent kidney stones, because there is no one thing. There’s no one pill that’s going to prevent kidney stones for everybody. There just isn’t if one day there becomes that. I’ll be the first one to talk about it. There’s not, there’s just not so.

Jeff Sarris
Well, I think that we will wrap for this week again, Lawrence, thank you so much for the question. And anyone else out there who has a question, the numbers 773-789-8763. And we would love to feature your voice in the future. And if you want to dive deep, you can find everything kidney stone diet related at kidneystonediet.com, where you can find the meal plans and prevention course the group calls with Jill where you get to work with Jill directly in a group setting and there. There are also private calls as well if that’s something that you prefer, but the group calls are such a an immense value for what it is. We’d like to always recommend that first for everyone.

Jill Harris
Yeah, most people can afford that. It’s very it’s a wonderful Family life loving, supportive community. Did you see my rock star? Hoodie?

Jeff Sarris
Yeah, I liked it. I liked it a lot.

Jill Harris
I will link that below too because people asked about this. Not everyone wants a stoner t shirt.

And subscribe to the channel, folks. Please just press the red button.

Jeff Sarris
And we will see you next week.

Jill Harris
Thanks, Lawrence. Awesome question.