In this conversation, Jeff Sarris and Jill Harris discuss the effectiveness of apple cider vinegar in treating kidney stones. Jill shares her personal experiences with illness and emphasizes the importance of scientific evidence over anecdotal claims. They explore the limited research on apple cider vinegar’s impact on kidney stones and suggest natural dietary alternatives for prevention.
Takeaways
- Apple cider vinegar may not be effective for kidney stones.
- Personal experiences with illness shape health recommendations.
- Scientific evidence is crucial in health discussions.
- Quick fixes are appealing but often misleading.
- Natural foods can help increase citrate levels.
- Supplements may not contain effective amounts of active ingredients.
- Gummies may have added sugars without benefits.
- Research on apple cider vinegar is limited to animals.
- Dietary changes can be more beneficial than supplements.
- Consulting with a professional can provide personalized advice.
00:00 Understanding Kidney Stones and Apple Cider Vinegar
06:44 The Science Behind Dietary Choices for Kidney Health
Jeff Sarris (00:04):
Can apple cider vinegar treat kidney stones? Let’s talk about that.
Welcome back to the kidney stone diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I’m your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.
Jill Harris (00:29):
And I’m Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Apple cider vinegar, Jeff.
Jeff Sarris (00:33):
Yeah, this is a big one. People want to find different ways to stop suffering now and in the future. So it’s a big topic.
Why I Understand the Appeal of Quick Fixes
Jill Harris (00:40):
Yes. It’s a big topic and look, it always makes sense. I know that people are like, “She’s such a bummer, always talking about don’t take this and don’t take that and that’s not gonna work.” The reason I say that is look, I’ve been really sick in my life with cancer. And when I first got my cancer and then it came back and went to stage four, if you think I didn’t Google my ass off trying to figure what can help me live, because I had a nine year old at the time, you’re mistaken.
It’s not like I don’t understand folks. I do. You want to do whatever you can to save yourself. Save yourself from your ureteroscopy, pain, missed time off work, surgeries, my God, all this stuff. And who the hell can even get into a doctor’s office anymore? And nobody wants to go into an ER. It’s hours and hours and hours and you’re suffering, all of it. Guys, I get it. I suffer with illness, so I understand. And that’s why
I think it’s really important coming from me who understands this, that believe me, if there was an herb or something I could burn on my foot or my toe or if I breathe this or I would do it to get rid of that cancer. I tried a lot of things. I went to functional doctors and functional medicine doctors, all the things, hundreds and hundreds of dollars of things. Did you hear Finn? I guess I’m boring him. He was like, “argh.”
Jeff Sarris (02:08):
No, I didn’t.
Jill Harris (02:12):
So, I mean, I get it. We all want quick fixes. We want to feel better. We want to make sure we never get fill in the blank ever again. I so get this. So when I’m telling you that I wouldn’t waste your money on some of the pills and gummies and supplements that you want to take, that’s just my thoughts. You, of course, can always do what you want to do. But I go by the science here, okay?
And people will say, “Timmy took boo-boo-boo and he was passing stones left and right.” Was he? I believe he passed stones, but was it because of the tea he drank or was he just drinking copious amounts of fluids? Also, was it just time for that stone to move? A lot of people pass stones every day. They’re not drinking anything. The stone’s just moving. Okay? So you got to look at all the reasons and ways in which what caused the stone to move.
What the Research Actually Shows
Now, apple cider vinegar. There’s little tiny studies, but worth mentioning, that will say there’s a study in Nutrients 2019 and it says that people who eat more vinegar-based foods may have lower urine calcium and oxalate in their urine. This could help lower stone risk. Vinegar may increase citrate in the urine and remember citrate is something that binds onto calcium so oxalate can’t connect to her. So that can lower your stone risk. So vinegar may increase citrate.
But these studies that are being cited are on animals or in a research lab. They’re not on people. They didn’t put people in a lab and say, “Suck on this apple cider vinegar and let’s do some urine studies on you and see what happens.” So in my eyes, we just don’t have enough definitive research that shows apple cider vinegar is going to do anything.
Potential Side Effects I’ve Seen
Now, let’s talk about the things that may happen, what I have heard happen in my practice. “Well, Jill, I was sucking on apple cider vinegar because somebody told me that will help my kidney stones dissolve them.” There’s absolutely no proof of that, folks. Apple cider vinegar is not dissolving your stones. But as I said a second ago, people will do anything when they’ve been sick. Been there, done that. Okay? And when people take too much apple cider vinegar or ACV as it’s known on the internet. It can cause esophageal issues. It can damage your teeth and it can also cause lower potassium levels which can increase your stone risk.
Now a lot of you use gummies for all kinds of things. All kinds of things and that’s fine by me if it’s not increasing your stone risk. People love gummies because there’s a lot of sugar in those gummies. “Jill, it’s four grams.” Is that really where you want to waste some added sugar? I’d rather have a little bit more ice cream, quite frankly, but that’s just me. There’s also, there’s no guarantee that there’s enough vinegar in those gummies to do anything for you. So that’s the thing about gummies too guys. Most of these things are not third party lab tested. And so how much is in that gummy you’re eating?
The Problem with Supplements
No one really knows and that goes with any supplement. Nobody’s looking at these supplements. If they have how much potassium is really in that supplement, how much, if you put a whole bunch of apple cider vinegar supplements and you studied each of them, they would all have different levels of vinegar in there, which is what people are looking for for kidney stone risk. Okay, so also if you already have reflux, the odds are apple cider vinegar is going to increase your risk of having an attack of that. So that’s the thing, okay?
My Bottom Line
So if you want to use a little apple cider vinegar because you think it’s curing everything that ails you, put it in your salad, that’s fine. But as far as kidney stone risk, I really wouldn’t waste your money on getting it. There’s no research on humans that has shown anything. It’s definitely not breaking up stones. And so if it were me, I wouldn’t do it.
And believe me, I have a huge family history of kidney stones. I’m not taking apple cider vinegar. So do what you want with this information, but is this helping your stone risk? No. In my eyes, in my opinion, and it hasn’t been studied on humans, that would be no. But your risk for other things could be greater. Now, do this. The next time you do a 24-hour urine collection, you may say, “Jill, I want to see. Maybe it’s increasing my citrate a little.” You could take your gummy while you’re doing that.
But also fruits and vegetables will just naturally increase your citrate. So I’m always going to start at the most natural place. And that’s what you’re putting in your mouth as far as food goes. That’s my take on it.
Jeff Sarris (07:25):
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where the Kidney Stone Diet comes from is all the science to reduce your risk and prevent kidney stones. And we have everything that you need right at kidneystonediet.com. We have hundreds of episodes of this podcast, or you can work with Jill directly at kidneystonediet.com, have a one-on-one consult, or even review your 24-hour urine collection. So you can have a better doctor’s visit knowing exactly what these results are because Jill has done this for 26 years now.
Jill Harris (07:45):
Yes.
Jeff Sarris (07:54):
Which is so much experience with thousands and thousands of patients. So everything that you need to prevent future stones, you can find at kidneystonediet.com. And again, thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next week.
Jill Harris (08:06):
Bye everybody, thank you.
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