In this conversation, Jill Harris discusses the relationship between diet and kidney stones, focusing on the impact of leafy greens, calcium intake, and the importance of urine analysis. She addresses a listener’s question about dietary choices and kidney stone risk, emphasizing the need for personalized dietary advice based on urine collection results. The conversation highlights the significance of understanding dietary oxalates, sodium, and urine pH levels in managing kidney stone formation.
Takeaways
- Leafy greens can contribute to kidney stone formation.
- Calcium supplements may increase kidney stone risk.
- Tracking dietary intake is crucial for kidney stone prevention.
- High urine calcium levels can be managed with dietary adjustments.
- An alkaline diet may not be suitable for all kidney stone formers.
- Understanding urine pH is important for kidney stone management.
- Consulting with a specialist can provide personalized dietary guidance.
- Maintaining a balanced diet with adequate hydration is essential.
- Regular urine analysis helps in monitoring kidney stone risk.
- Education on dietary factors can empower individuals to make informed choices.
00:00 Introduction to Kidney Stone Prevention
00:55 Understanding Urine Calcium and Diet
07:21 The Role of Urine pH in Kidney Stones
11:41 Consultation Insights and Recommendations
Jeff Sarris (00:00)
Are leafy green vegetables causing your kidney stones? Let’s talk about that.
and we have a question. Should we dive right into the question? Yeah, and if you’re out there with a question, the number is 773-789-8764. But today we are going to hear from Marie.
Jill Harris (00:06)
Okay, let’s dive right in. Let’s dive.
Marie, okay.
Okay.
I love the name Marie. It’s right up there with Angela to me because I’m very Italian. Marie, Maria, love Maria. No one asked, but that’s what I’m thinking about right now. Okay, so we have two questions, right Jeff? And Jeff’s thinking to himself, did she remember? I think I did. I write them down when I, I listen, I write it down. Okay, so what I think I heard beautiful Marie say, basically,
Jeff Sarris (02:21)
Mm-hmm.
No.
Jill Harris (02:34)
She enjoys a diet that’s filled with plants, which I just love hearing. She also uses yogurt to get her calcium needs met along with other things. And she does fish as well. Good, because remember, it’s hard to get enough protein on a very high fruit and vegetable diet. So she’s probably including fish for that also. She said that she had high urine calcium. She was told to get off the supplements. Of course, as we know, when you get off supplements,
urine calcium will be lowered, so that’s great. Using calcium supplements will increase your kidney stone risk, so I’m glad to hear someone gave her good advice. And she’s tracking calcium. She says that basically she doesn’t go over the 1,200 milligrams a day, which we who do not get our periods anymore should not. If you do still get your period up to 1,000, but this doesn’t mean we go over. Our body doesn’t absorb calcium that great, okay?
So we want to make sure we’re not going over. She said this time she did have, and she’s also, you know, very low sugar-salt kind of gal. Great. She said she noticed that her urine calcium was a little elevated in this latest urine collection. So I don’t know what little means. Sounds like Marie knows what time it is. So I think a little means a little, right? So probably less than 20 points. But…
I really don’t know, so I’m not going to assume, but here’s what I’ll say.
She says she doesn’t need any salt, but guys, there’s salt in everything. There’s salt in plants as well, because they’re grown in the ground and you’re going to find calcium, sodium, you’re going to find oxalate, obviously. You’re going to find that, okay, in the ground. Even milk will have salt in it. The cows ate stuff out of the ground. There’s salt in that and then it’s in your milk, okay? So there is salt in your diet, even if you’re saying you’re having zero salt. So my first question, if I were looking at her urine collection,
And I saw, she said she did a few of them. Sounds like it went like this. Had the first urine collection, her urine calcium was high. Somebody told her, hey, lay off those pills, Marie. So the next urine collection, she laid off the pills, her urine calcium went down. Now she’s saying, it’s up again. So the first thing if I were looking at her urine collection is I would look at the sodium.
Maybe it’s a little higher, not because she’s sprinkling salt everywhere, but she could have eaten a little bit more salt that day. Because again, it’s in everything we eat, even plants and veggies and fruits. There’s a little bit in there. So it adds up depending on how much food and drink went in her mouth. So that could have risen it a little. Could it have been that she went over the 1,200 maybe? Because could it be that she ate a bunch load of vegetables that day?
Meaning broccoli has like 100 milligrams of oxalate in, I think, three ounces of broccoli. So if you’re eating a pile of broccoli every day, that will add up, right? So I would never tell some, yeah, oh, would I say honey, oxalate? God, what would I do without you? Seriously. Just when I think too, folks, he’s not paying attention. Actually, I’m not even gonna say that was a mistake. I was just checking to see if you were paying attention,
Jeff Sarris (05:47)
and that’s of calcium, right? Of oxalate.
You
Perfect.
Jill Harris (06:04)
Let’s go with that.
So, so I’m never going to say I’m going to say take away spinach, the highest oxley foods, but I want everyone to get their plants in. Of course, I’m on a mission this year 2025, the minimum of three cups of veggies a day, one cup of fruit, nobody here in America is getting that. So that’s the minimum. Okay, so that’s what we want. So
What I would say to her is it could be that you’re eating so much, meaning the portions are so huge, perhaps that is, you are going over the 1200. But was your salt, so I’d like to know that Marie, was your salt a little higher? And salt is listed under sodium or it’s listed under NA for sodium. That’s the chemical name.
So, and if you did a litholink test, will be under dietary factors, the first value, will say NA24. So you can look if that’s a litholink test. All right, so it could be. So I’m just going to say be mindful exactly. If you’re eating five cups of broccoli a day, maybe you want to get, you know, maybe you just want to pay attention to how much calcium you’re actually getting. If you’re using an app, it will track all that for you so you can clearly see.
Because I don’t love taking away vegetables, folks, if we don’t have to. And it all depends on how high her urine calcium was. Was it over 200? Because we want it under 200 on a urine collection. Or was it the last time she did a urine collection 104 and now it’s 108? So I don’t have real numbers here, so I’m very careful in what I say. And I’m not going to tell her to stop eating broccoli.
when I don’t have real numbers. So Marie, feel free to call back, lovey. Okay, so that’s that. Now, Marie also said, by the way, Sissy, my urine pH on my test is 7.05. That is a very high urine pH. And I’m sure the lab she worked with said, very high, very high. Marie’s like, what the hell? Everything I read,
An alkaline diet is gorgeous, but not necessarily for kidney stone formers, folks. So some of you will have super high urine pH. And we won’t care about that at all unless you have two other things, low urine volume, meaning it in P a lot, and high urine calcium. If you have those three things, you have an increased risk for calcium phosphate stones.
Okay? So if you just have the high urine pH, we won’t care, we won’t really care about that. But Marie, this is exactly why I tell people, don’t you dare suck on a lemon or start using Moonstone or start using Crystal Light to raise your pH level, like all the ads or all the websites say on kidney stone prevention sites, have lemon. Why?
If your pH is already high, now you’re sucking on lemons all day, rotting out your teeth, and also increasing that pH that you don’t even know is high because you haven’t done a urine collection and now you’re making it higher, higher, higher. It’s precisely why I say get a urine collection done before you start adding lemons and litholite and potassium citrate and all the junk to raise a pH. It may be making matters worse.
So yes, overall, an alkaline pH is better. But again, there’s alkaline and then there’s holy brusho, look at Marie’s pH, it’s super high. So maybe she’s sucking on lemon. Marie could be saying, I’m not sister, I’m not sucking on lemon. But she’s on a very high veggie diet, so that could be making her pH higher. But again, if her urine calcium is under 200 and her fluids are over, her P is over 2.5 and above her urine volume.
We won’t care about that pH as much, but I still don’t want somebody sucking on a lemon, okay, and making that worse. She also said, I thought that was way better than an acidic diet, a really acidic diet for kidney stone formers. Diabetics have this, people with malabsorption have this, bariatric patients, Crohn’s, colitis, IBD, IBS, all of it. So people with a very acidic urine below
Six. You are at risk for uric acid stones and calcium oxalate stones. People who overeat meat. Overeat meat. Your pH will become very acidic and that can make you more apt to form uric acid and calcium oxalate stones. Okay? So it’s Goldilocks principle. We don’t want too high. We don’t want too low. Boring, annoying Jill wants us right in the middle.
6.1, 6.2, those are great pH’s. Anything over 6.2 on a urine collection is typically going to be flagged, but again, we won’t care about it if your urine calcium is in the right level and you’re peeing enough. Okay? So I hope that makes sense. So my advice for Marie, which I’ll be careful in giving her because I actually don’t have a urine collection in front of me, and that’s why these…
The consults that I do are so valuable and you may say, girl, you’re getting paid. Yes, I am and I deserve every penny. I’ve spent almost 30 years really understanding these tests. But what happens is you get such a better doctor office visit and you really get on the best treatment plan and you could say goodbye to stones. Okay, so my success rate is off the charts. Okay, so I don’t mind saying it’s worth the money to get that urine consult at kidneystonediet.com.
So without looking at her urine collection, I would be very careful. Do I want her to give up vegetables? No. If her calcium is getting too high because she’s overeating the highest calcium vegetables, track that for a minute, Marie, and see where you’re going. Maybe you want to lessen the broccoli and add another veggie that’s not going to have as much. That’s not as calcium rich since you’re doing such a good job of calcium. And then as far as
the alkaline pH, I’m not going to tell you to stop eating vegetables, of course. I’d really care to know like how’s your urine calcium, how’s your urine volume before that is ever talked about. Does that make sense, Jeff?
Jeff Sarris (12:52)
Yeah, definitely does. And just to reiterate, the urine analysis consult at kidneystonediet.com is for your 24 hour urine collection and getting that collection and having Jill break down exactly what everything means is what we were talking about in this entire episode. So even saying if it’s Litholink, you’re looking for the NA, like all of those details that you might not know about, Jill is able after doing, going through thousands.
Jill Harris (13:00)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sarris (13:17)
of collections with thousands, thousands, excuse me, of patients over, yeah, 26, 27 years now, she can help you have that better result. So if you want to find that, you want to find the kidney stone prevention course, we have the all access pass at kidneystonediet.com. So you get access to all of the learning materials, the meal plans and everything. Or if you want the one-on-one with Jill, we have the 24 hour urine collection consult as well, but everything can be found at kidneystonediet.com and yeah.
Jill Harris (13:17)
Thank guys.
Yeah, and if
you do the all access pass, don’t they get 20 % off my private consults? I mean, that’s the frigging deal. Yeah.
Jeff Sarris (13:47)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Yeah. yeah, once you’re in on the all access, you get the discount for, yeah, for the one-on-ones, but yeah, it’s all there, kidneystonediet.com. So I think with that we’ll wrap. Thanks again, Marie for your question and we’ll see you next time.
Jill Harris (14:01)
Yep.
Bye Marie, thank you.
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