This week Jill answers a listener question about collagen protein and its connection with oxalate.
Jeff Sarris
Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I’m your host and fellow students, Jeff Sarris.
Jill Harris
And I’m Jill, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Hello, Jeff.
Jeff Sarris
Hi! So, we are back and you are at a new location.
Jill Harris
Yes, I am. I am in a new location, I have to say, it’s very dark in this new apartment. I was living in a fishbowl, as you know, but I tell everybody this: in order to get things you want in life, I needed to get my son closer to his new school, you have to give up. And you know what, I always find this. I had somebody who told me this, they’re like, ” you know what, Jill shut up about that stupid view because wherever you go, you always make the best out of it.” And you know what? They were right. Hate to say it, but they were. And so I love my new neighborhood. It’s dark, but whatever I call it now cozy. So there’s always a way to get around things that don’t really make you happy, but in order to find happiness, or contentment at least, you’ve got to roll with the punches. So I’m rolling with them. I’m rolling with them. The apartment itself is really pretty, and the neighborhood is freaking fantastic. So, the reason I could live where I live in that beautiful view is because the neighborhood wasn’t the best. So now I’ve upped my neighborhood. So I think that’s best for my son and my self. So there you go.
Jeff Sarris
Yeah, and do you feel like settled in now?
Jill Harris
I do! It’s been a month, so I feel very settled. I feel like I’ve grown up here. You know, I got my stuff placed right away. And yeah, I feel good. Luke loves it. Luke walks more than ever now. He really loves the neighborhood, too. And we have a porch, which is really nice. It’s a three flat with the big porch and so he’s always on the porch. So yeah, we’re really happy.
Jeff Sarris
Sweet! So, should we dive right into this week’s question?
Jill Harris
Let’s go baby! Let’s do it!
Jeff Sarris
Let’s see here.
Listener Voicemail
Hi, my name is Cindy and I live in California. I have a question about collagen. You see so much of it advertised. And there is protein in it, but also a number of vitamins. I’m wondering about that in relationship to kidney stones. I have calcium oxalate stones that I produce. I’m not sure if you’ve already answered this question, but I follow the podcast and I don’t remember hearing you talk about it. Thank you and have a great day.
Jill Harris
Oh, Cindy, I love Cindy’s question.
Jeff Sarris
Yeah, it’s good. We haven’t talked about collagen, specifically, and it is sort of that like it’s been around forever, but it is sort of in that superfood world now where people are really all about it.
Jeff Sarris
Yeah, it’s good. We haven’t talked about collagen, specifically, and it is sort of that like it’s been around forever, but it is sort of in that superfood world now where people are really all about it.
Jill Harris
Jeff, it so is! So, when I moved in this new apartment, of course, it’s September here. So I had to run over to Marshall’s, because it’s right across the street, which is not good for me. And I had to get my son a couple things for his bedroom. While I was there, they had some things in the food aisle I’m like “oh, look at that.” I like going into their food aisle because it’s all the reduced stuff. All the reduced super foods that have been real popular and everyone’s sick of buying; collagen one of them.
Collagen protein can convert over to oxalate
Okay so collagen, yes, you’re right, has been the latest and greatest. People have been growing Goldilocks hair and their nails, they don’t even know what to do with their nails. Everything is growing back because they’re taking their collagen supplements. I’m not saying that that’s not true. Not saying that at all. But here’s the deal with collagen and kidney stones.
Collagen can convert over to oxalate, so it can be an issue for kidney stone formers. Now, typically when you’re taking those products, any of these super duper, kind of latest greatest diet fad kind of things, we tend to do it all the time. So that’s usually the problem. Next month, it may be kiwis are the greatest thing you’ve ever had in your whole frickin life and in order to grow your eyelashes, and everything else you want to do eat a kiwi. So, people buy 10 kiwis a day because more is better, right? Not necessarily. More is not better, and any kidney stone farmer will know this.
Just because you found a healthy product or the latest greatest superfood, does not mean you should be eating it all day long because some of those things could be higher in oxalate. In terms of collagen, there have been studies that have shown that too much of it can convert over to oxalate in your body. So, there are different amounts. For me, I would not be taking collagen if I were a calcium oxalate stone former. If I were any kind of stone former, I just wouldn’t take it. Now, I don’t have stones but some of my family members do. I don’t want to increase my odds any old way, so I’m not a fan of it. What I tell patients when we want to know exactly how much we can and cannot have of a product I always say look on your urine collection— when you’re doing one, which you all should be doing so you can see why you’re forming stones and then get on a treatment plan and then do a follow up test to make sure that the treatment plan is working— I tell patients look, if you’re iffy about something you’re doing, do that on the day of the urine collection and see if you have higher oxalate. See how it affects your urine. It could be a little bit different for everybody, but overall studies have shown that collagen can produce extra oxalate in your body. So if it was my patient I was counseling or one of my students in the Kidney Stone Prevention course, I would say I don’t recommend it for you as a stone former. That’s what I would say.
Jeff Sarris
And I know we’ve talked about other protein powders as well. Do protein powders, in general, seem to convert to oxalate, or is it specifically something about collagen?
Jill Harris
It’s specifically collagen, itself, which is a form of protein. Protein powders— and we do have a video on this too, so look in the video list— it’s not like protein powders, convert into oxalate. That’s not it. What I don’t like about protein powders is that people take protein shakes in lieu of chewing, in lieu of a meal. They get sick of that and one day they just go rah, rah, rah, eat a lot. Because you can’t suck down your food, you’ve got to chew it. So I’m not a fan of it, overall, because people are substituting their whole meals with one shake. So, that’s what I’m not a fan of.
So, hold on, I just want to stop there. That’s what I’m not a fan of. Many people say, “Jill says no protein shakes. She never said no protein shakes. Jill said she doesn’t like you eating a shake in lieu of food because typically, long term, the chips are going to fall somewhere not cute.” Okay. Now some people say I could have a protein shake. It doesn’t bother me for the rest of my life instead of a meal. Okay, that’s fine. You’re one out of a million. Most people will miss chewing their food and those protein shakes are setting them up for failure going on long term. Does that make sense, Jeff?
Jeff Sarris
It definitely does. I find that in me. It’s not even like a it’s not a conscious missing of chewing, but it’s almost like a craving. I’m craving something and I don’t understand what. Maybe I’ll grab chips or something crunchy because my body just knows something’s a little off, like it doesn’t understand what’s happened, I guess.
Jill Harris
I think that’s such a great way to put it. I have found because I am very mindful about why I’m eating what I’m eating; all of that. I’m very mindful about it. This ain’t no façade. It’s how I live. And so it’s very interesting when I’m trying to make up calories. I’m using an egg white protein shake and so sometimes I noticed after I have that I’m like dang if I don’t want a crunch! And so, I am a crunchy girl, but I want to crunch! I don’t know what it is. It’s kind of like what you’re saying, Jeff, it’s just there’s something. I don’t know what it is. I wish someone could explain that to me. So, I will find some days like that. On the day that I have the protein shake, I will be overeating a little because I have the shake and now I’m like needing a crunch. And, overall, I am a crunchy kind of girl so that’s not crazy to think, but there’s something in particular about sucking down that shake and then wanting something crunchy. I don’t understand what it is, but same same.
Jeff Sarris
What is your go-to crunch? Because I know Cheez-Its do not live in the house…
Jill Harris
Nope, they’re not in the house! Ok, so I have a couple go-to crunches. One is Popcorners. Oh my god! They’re on my blog, KidneyStoneDiet.com. I have a list of snacks that are safe for kidney stone formers. I think we call it Kidney Stone Diet-safe snacks. And, honey, I will tell you right now, it is those dang Popcorners! So, here’s how I do it. Here’s how I do it. No one asked, but I’m gonna tell you anyway, because I get so excited. Somewhere along the line, you’re gonna have a craving and you’re gonna need a little somethin’ somethin’, right? So for me, it’s my Popcorners. What I do is I allow myself to buy one bag a month, one bag a month. That’s my rule. And even though I’m kind of a rebellious girl at heart, I like spontaneity, I can be almost Nana-like rigid. And that’s how I can do this diet and workout all the time, and be a rule follower.
So, I set rules for myself. I know a lot of my patients and students like this, too. The rule is this: you want those Popcorners, girl, because you know you’ve got to be careful because you love them, you get to buy one bag a month. If you want to eat half a bag one day, and finish off half a bag the next day, go ahead, but you don’t get another bag for another month. So, you might want to spread that out. And I’ll tell you what, folks, most of the time I eat half a bag and I eat half a bag the next time, but I’m very good about, then that’s it.
The other thing I do is boring. Sometimes when I want to crunch, I’ll go for an apple. You’re getting a sweet tooth fix. You’re also getting a nice fiber fix, so I’ll go for an apple. Sometimes I’ll do rice cakes, and they’ll be brown rice. It’s high in oxalate, but I just do one friggin cake, people. And guess what I do? I put yogurt on it, Greek yogurt. So I also am getting calcium with that because I’m mindful of the excess oxalate I may get in a rice cake. So then I’ll put my Greek yogurt on there. Typically, those are my two crunchy snacks.
Oh, Oh, Oh, one more! One more I love so very much. The harvest snap peas. You can get them at Whole Foods or a lot of places, I think Target, too. So when they go on sale, I’ll buy a lot of those same rule one bag a month. So that means I may stock up because they’re on sale. I’m frugal. And I love those again, because they’re crunchy. They’re lower in sodium. They’re for vegans and vegetarians because there’s just snap peas in there, man. And they put a little bit of salt, so I think it’s like 110 calories per serving, and 70 grams of sodium. So, it’s a great get-your-crunch-on kind of snack. So I’m a big advocate of both of those things. I’m also very good at adhering to that rule.
So, it’s once a month I get a bag, even if I buy a ton of them. So if it was Cheeze-Its, there’s no way I could follow that rule. But these things, although I love them, I get extra happy because I can also control myself with them. So that’s what makes me so happy I’m able to. So those are my two snack choices for kidney stone-safe stuff. Also, of course, popcorn. If you guys want popcorn, I don’t use a lot of extra stuff on my popcorn, but you can get a high volume.
The other thing I’m paying attention to because I do mind calories, I’m choosing lower calorie dense snacks, not high calorie snack. Because, at the end of the day, people I don’t want to eat what I don’t want. I want to eat a snack if I’m gonna have a snack. I want like a couple cupfuls of something. I’m not opening a bag for it to go stale with three pieces of something. That’s not me. So, I’m always going to choose lower calorie dense foods, so I can eat a little bit more. They’re always low in salt and they’re always zero oxalate stuff and, of course, no added sugar. So, there you go. Those are my snacks. We’re fitting that in with the collagen, Cindy!
Jeff Sarris
Yeah, for sure. I think that was really good. And thank you again, Cindy, for your question. For anyone else out there who has a question for Jill, the number is 773-789-8763, and we will feature your question on a future episode of the show. So, thanks again for listening to the show and if you want more, head on over to kidneystonediet.com where you can find the safe oxalate list. You can find the Kidney Stone Prevention course, you can find tons of free content and some premium stuff like the course, the meal plans, the various things that we do to just sort of help you along your journey to reducing your risk for kidney stones. There’s so much free stuff and then some premium things that help us keep the lights on, so if you want to support the show or dive a little deeper head on over there, and yeah, thanks again for listening and we will see you next time!
Jill Harris
Bye, Jeff! Thank you, Cindy!
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