In this conversation, Jeff Sarris and Jill Harris discuss the impact of oxalates in vegetables, particularly focusing on the common practice of boiling vegetables to reduce oxalate levels. Jill emphasizes the importance of retaining nutrients in vegetables and explains that while oxalates can be a concern for a small population, most people can safely consume them without drastic measures. The discussion also touches on dietary choices related to kidney stone prevention and the balance between health and enjoyment in eating.
Takeaways
- Boiling vegetables can reduce oxalate but also nutrients.
- Most people do not need to worry about oxalate levels.
- Eating a variety of foods is essential for nutrition.
- Oxalate is not the primary concern for kidney stone prevention.
- Enjoying food during holidays is important for mental health.
- Genetics play a significant role in kidney stone formation.
- A balanced diet includes calcium and limited oxalate-rich foods.
- Carnivore diets may increase kidney stone risk for some individuals.
- Nourishing the body is crucial for overall health.
- Education on dietary choices can help manage health risks.
00:00 Understanding Oxalates and Kidney Stones
08:15 Nourishing Your Body vs. Oxalate Concerns
09:18 Dietary Choices and Kidney Stone Risk
Jeff Sarris (00:00)
soaking vegetables help reduce oxalate? Let’s talk about that.
feel like it’s a fact or fiction. Is this actually going to work? Is it going to help anyone to do this to the vegetables?
Jill Harris (00:12)
Well, there’s lots of research that says it will reduce oxalate. If you boil vegetables, you can reduce your oxalate for sure. So you may say, why don’t you tell us to do that, Grandma? Why don’t you? I don’t tell you to do that because if you’re leaching out the oxalate from those plants, guess what else?
you’re leeching out all kinds of good vitamins and nutrients so I’m not a fan of it I mean how bad do you need to have first of all does that mean I can have spinach Jill by the time you you boiled that spinach first of all it would be as big as my pupil and there would be there would be nothing left of anything what why would you eat it because then all the nutrients are in that water so no
Look, people always, this is a big one, people are always like, well I read and I read and I researched and it says that I can really reduce the oxalate level in my vegetables if I boil the hell out of them. I don’t want people doing that. Here’s why. I want you to get all the nutrients out of your vegetables. That means there’s gonna be some oxalate in there. It’s not gonna kill you folks. Yes, there is a very small time.
tiny population that has hyperoxyluria. They have that, okay? I’ve never seen one patient in my practice with that 26 years, by the way. So that’s how rare it is. I never deal with that. And you could say, Boo Boo Kitty does on the internet. Well, go to Boo Boo Kitty. If that’s what she or he is dealing with, then you need to go follow them. I don’t deal with it. Not that I don’t want to deal with it. I’ve never had to deal with it.
Now I’ve had some primary hyperoxylaria folks, but it’s genetics. That’s what’s going on. Okay. It’s not cause they eat too much spinach. They have genetic things going on. But I’ve never had somebody in my practice. I’ve had people in my practice that, you know, their oxalate is about 125. We want oxalate levels under 30 on our urine collections. But they worked with me for one session. The next time we did their follow-up.
urine collection on their number two call and then that was it. They were on their ode. Their oxalate was 22 and Dr. Koh actually has a case study on it on his kidneystone.uchicago.edu site. So I’ve never had a kidney stone patient where I couldn’t help them lower their oxalate. It’s the easiest thing in the world. Easiest thing.
Yet that’s what everyone’s coming to me for. my own jill, my oxalate. my God, there’s nothing to eat. What am I going to do? I’m going to boil the shit out of my vegetables. You don’t have to, Fran. You don’t have to. You just have to stop eating spinach every day and not get your calcium needs met every day. That’s what you need to do. You need to get rid of almond milk, almond bread, almond flour, almond, almond, Okay? And then you eat all other foods in normal portion size. There’s other foods I take away. Maybe there’s five.
chia seeds, cashews, rhubarb. I don’t take away beets. They’re high in oxalate, but you’re to have a few as a side dish. That’s fine. Get calcium with that meal. Boiling your vegetables in order to reduce oxalate. It’s not that I’m just not a fan of it. You just don’t need to do it because you’re going to lose all the nutrients and vitamins and all the fun things that come.
along with the oxalate. It’s perfectly okay. Most of you, unless you have malabsorption issues from bowel disease or bariatric surgeries, you’re able to have up to 100 milligrams of oxalate a day. That’s a lot of oxalate, folks. Most of my patients get nowhere near that. And so you can clearly have some things that are higher in oxalates. Thanksgiving is this week. Well, it’s not because when we…
put this out, will be passed, but Thanksgiving just came by. And I have a lot of people too, but I really want those candied yams. I’m more worried about the sugar than the oxalate in the yams, and I’m not even worried about the sugar because it’s a holiday. Enjoy yourself, get right back, enjoy your treat, get back on the street the next day, that’s it. It’s not a big deal. Oxalate is the least worrisome problem when it comes to lowering your risk for kidney stones.
The reason everybody freaks out about it, not a judgment, just a fact, is because what gave you the stone was you were eating so much oxalate. But now, after you learn by going through our YouTube channel, reading newsletters, going to kidneystonediet.com, going to the Facebook, all the free things we do, once you learn that it’s the least important part of the kidney stone diet by taking away a handful of foods, the hard work comes,
when you’re trying to lower salt, lower added sugar, drink more fluids, get your calcium needs met, and stop eating a side of beef every day. That’s what we’re talking about here. That’s the hard part. Oxalate, easy. Not a problem. Oxalate’s easy. So, well Jill, I hear you. I hear you, but I still wanna do it. God bless, you’re grown. Do you do you?
If you want to boil the heck out of those vegetables to lower the oxalate, just know you’re also losing other nutrients from that vegetable, which is the whole reason you’re eating them, right? So that’s all I’m saying. You don’t have to do that. If you want to, be my guest. I would never do that because I really want all those nutrients that are in my fruits and vegetables. When I eat fruits and vegetables, I feel so proud of myself and so good because I know it’s fueling my body.
You know, I’m 61 now. I have a lot of energy for somebody who is 61. And it is because I work out, I eat well, and I really do the things that I’m asking you guys to do. And that’s why I say, I know it’s hard, but where else do you want to put in the work every day? Where else? What else matters? I’ve been really, and here’s another thing. Jeff, there was a comment on,
It was this comment I just posted and somebody said, it wasn’t the first time somebody said this, they said, know, if she’s so healthy, if this diet is so healthy and I’m following this diet, why did she get cancer? Why does she have stage four cancer? And actually it wasn’t nice, it was very not nice what they said. So I wrote back and I said, how about looking at it this way?
Jeff Sarris (07:19)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Harris (07:27)
I’m still here!
The people that I went through this journey with, with my cancer journey, all the friends I met at Sloan Kettering when I would travel there to get my chemo, all the friends I met at Northwestern when I was getting chemo here too, they’re dead.
A lot of them had other medical conditions because they weren’t nourishing their body. They weren’t exercising. So maybe I flip it around. Maybe I’m still here because I was super healthy going into that treatment. But the point is sometimes people eat healthy and still get cancer. It was just an ignorant comment, quite frankly, because people get sick. They just do.
People get sick even if they eat well or move well or whatever. I’m just saying, I feel really happy when I’m nourishing my body. And that’s why I want you guys to eat fruits and vegetables. I’m on a mission, as you know, this year to eat more of them or eat them because you’re not eating them at all. And in my humble opinion, please don’t boil the heck out of them. Just to get rid of some oxalate that if you just ate a little bit less of the product.
you’d get rid of more oxalate than you’re trying to boil out and you’d save all the nutrients. I hope that makes sense. What do you think, Jeff?
Jeff Sarris (08:50)
Yeah, it absolutely does. And if you need to learn more about those, the KSD goals, they’re right on the homepage of the website at kidneystonediet.com. And you mentioned the don’t have the side of beef and that’s just to keep meat protein in check. It’s not get rid of meat. It’s not, yeah, then same here. And that’s just the, the one thing is just to keep it in check because if there’s too much meat protein, then there is sort of a cascade of effects that can happen. So it’s just one of the goals for the kidney stone diet.
Jill Harris (09:04)
Yeah. No, I eat meat. Yeah.
Yeah, you know, Jeff, bringing that up, will have carnivores that say, hey, I’ve been on carnivore for a year. I’m not making stones. And I’m like, yeah, yeah. I mean, stones don’t happen overnight. And unless you’re getting a CT for something else, you may have a stone, but you don’t know because it didn’t move. A carnivore diet will absolutely increase your kidney stone risk if you’re prone to kidney stones. Listen, guys, well, I do this, but I never got a stone.
Jeff Sarris (09:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Harris (09:47)
You’re not predisposed to making them. Some people just have a genetic makeup that will make them more predisposed to have kidney stones. That’s all. So if you’re not somebody that makes stones and you’re on carnivore diet, feel lucky about that. But many of you will. I have a lot of carnivore people in my practice. That’s how I know. Otherwise, why would I care? I wouldn’t. Mind you, it would make you happy, folks. But if you’re a kidney stone former,
a lot of research behind all the things I’m saying. And again, go to kinestonediet.uchicago.edu from my mentor who does nothing but talk about science all day long, Fred Coe, C-O-E, Dr. Coe. Now where I’m going.
Jeff Sarris (10:33)
Yeah. So with that, if you have a question and you’re out there, you want to have your voice featured on a future episode, the number is 773-789-8764. And we would love to hear from you. And you should also get on the email newsletter that Jill sends out every weekend. That’s at kidneystonediet.com. It keeps you on track. It’s a little inspiration and little nuggets of wisdom to set you off on the right foot on your week. So with that, we will wrap and see you next week.
Jill Harris (10:58)
Thanks guys.
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