Can we eat brown rice with kidney stones?

This week, Jill answers a listener question about the oxalate content of brown rice puffed cereal vs white rice puffed cereal.

Jeff Sarris
Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I’m your host, a fellow student Jeff Sarris.

Jill Harris
And I’m Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse.

Jeff Sarris
We’re back at it today we’re recording this on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. So maybe a little bit of a food hangover for me. I don’t know about you.

Jill Harris
I have to say I don’t over eat on Thanksgiving. I’m somebody and everyone’s like, I’m shutting it off right now this stupid show good for you, girl, you didn’t overeat. Glad you didn’t. I don’t because I can’t stand feeling ridiculously full. I just hate it. So I just hate that feeling. And it ruins my whole night. So I’m just like, and with all my stomach issues truly what I ate, I had some turkey, what was my side and a salad. I didn’t need stuffing I didn’t I just don’t eat any i That’s just real simple. And there was pies and this and that. And I did taste a little bit but I didn’t even have a slice or anything. And so I understand I’m not making any new friends by divulging that information. But you know, when you have a lot of bowel issues and all my my bowel friends out there, I will understand you just don’t want to be you don’t want to be sick. So you’re just it really motivates you to stay compliant and eat normal portions of things. And you know what I mean? So that’s why too, but I have to say I’ve never been a fan of over eating because I don’t like feeling full. So yeah,

Jeff Sarris
I have to admit that. That is me. I definitely engorge a little bit like and it’s so funny because it was just my parents and Amara. So just the four of us. And they all had one plate. They were done. And I’m like going back for my third I’m like

Jill Harris
See, I always tell patients and I always tell people I work with it’s okay, so I spent a lot of time on social media and emailing the last several days because people are good. They just get very annoyed in the group calls. They get very anxious. Right before Thanksgiving. I’m just going to go I’m not going to eat anything you know, because jewel I’m and this is what people say I’m really anxious about the oxalate and in my food and I also know I’m going over my aunt’s house and she everything has salt and sugar. And I’m petrified. And I’m not being dramatic. I’m telling you what people say. And I tell everybody is just one meal. I hope you have aunt Irene. Pumpkin pie. You get it once a year. Please enjoy that. Nobody makes a kidney stone on Thanksgiving evening. Nobody does that and your stones if you currently have them, they’re not going to get bigger i So promise you, all I ask people to do is get right back on track. And what people do is they indulge over Thanksgiving. And then they just sail through the whole holiday season over eating because they’re like screw it now I only did this for Thanksgiving. And Christmas is right around the corner or Hanukkah is coming up. It’s like To hell with it. I’m just gonna eat what I want. January 1 goggle on my diet. I mean, you can sit your damn clack tea with people. You could set your clock to it. Everyone’s gonna go on their diet January 1. Research shows the time between it was that family thing? I did. He’s already like, I’m bored. Recording. Halloween to January 1 is when most people gain their annual weight. The problem is, here’s what I hear. Joe I ever since I turned 60 I can’t lose weight. Well, that’s because you never lost the weight from January from last year. And now it’s another December and you gain more weight, more weight, more weight and you get so overwhelmed with the weight gain that you just give up right and you just chalk it up to old age. I’m just old now I gain weight. No you don’t. So, so these 60 days between Halloween and New Year’s Day are not throwaway days. They’re six days that are holidays, a few more for celebrating Hanukkah. But there’s no need to throw away all these days. Have a good time those six days and you don’t have to by the way if you don’t want to like me, but if you want to have a good time, enjoy the special holiday fare. It’s your culture. It’s your tradition. It’s really important food is supposed to also be enjoyable, because the more we deprive ourselves, the more we want that stuff Come on. What am I a genius? That would be no. So enjoy yourself. It’s Friday after Thanksgiving, like Jeff said, Get back to work, then you don’t feel bad. And the reason I say that is because your your confidence will go right back up, instead of beating yourself up, and then making yourself feel better with leftover turkey stuffing and all the things in the pie. Get right back to work. Give the leftovers away to all the people that come. Right. Yeah, I mean, that’s got to do.

Jeff Sarris
Well, yeah, because we’re looking at long term. We’re not worried about short term as much this is long term habits rather than short term decisions.

Jill Harris
That’s right. That’s right. Yes.

Jeff Sarris
So what do you say we dive into this week’s question? It’s a listener question, and it’s around. Can we eat brown rice with kidney stones? Okay.

Listener Voicemail
Hi, this is Julie and I’m looking at a package of the arrowhead Mills, puffed rice cereal. And it’s the brown rice cereal. And I was just curious as the, to the oxalate content of that I can no longer find just the plain white rice that’s puffed. Because I know that would be definitely lower in oxalates. So whenever you get a chance, I would like to find out that information on how much is in the puffed brown rice cereal. Thank you.

Jill Harris
So Harvard, I use the Harvard list. People in the kidney stone world tend to use the Harvard list that’s been around forever and because of that they haven’t studied a lot of the newer foods. I don’t know I think the food industry knows that we customers think brown rice is you know healthier than white rice so now they’re making their puffed items like rice cakes and stuff with brown rice and so they will be higher not slaves. Julie is asking how much higher I don’t know girl. But this is how I would figure it out. If I were you and if you weren’t in my cupboard right now you would see rice cakes that are made with brown rice. Now, so what I do is I look soon as I started hearing question I pulled up the oxalate list at kidney stone diet.com You can find the oxalate list, you can type in a food and it will come right up. So go to kidney stone diet.com To find your oxalate list. So brown rice flour. If I type in rice, the search the oxalate list that kidney stone diet.com I put rice in the hoozy in the search bar. And so it tells me brown rice flour, for one cup is 65 milligrams of oxalate. So that’s why most of us get 100 milligrams of oxalate a day unless the diet doctor has told you otherwise. We go with 100. And so if you’re having a cup of brown rice, they’re 65 bucks coming out of your bank account. That’s brown rice flour, excuse me, if you’re just having brown rice 24 milligrams for a cup. Okay, so people you could still have brown rice if you want. It does have a little bit more fiber than white rice. So you know, it’s overall a little bit healthier. White rice for one cup has four milligrams of oxalate. It also the Harvard LIS did study puffed rice, it says one cup, two milligrams, most likely. I’m going to think that’s white puffed rice. That’s what I’m going to assume because that’s back in the 80s A long time ago. So how much Julie’s like she’ll just get to the question. I don’t hold on Julie Brown. So how much is your puffed rice made with brown flour? It’s going to be higher, how much higher? If you want that puffed rice cereal I would have I just would because brown rice cooked is 24 milligrams per cup. So what’s your portion size on these things? I have those rice cakes and I put whatever I want on it. You know, sometimes I make a turkey sandwich out of it, whatever. Whatever I’m doing with those rice cakes. Sometimes I put Greek yogurt on it. I know they’re higher, but I’m not eating 10 rice cakes. I’m adding one rice cake and I’m moving the hell on even if I am making a sandwich out of it. Because again, I love crunchy. That’s what I’m after. So if you want that cereal, Julie, I would certainly have it. If we’re going to estimate sometimes I just make it up and I always estimate on the higher side. Maybe that’s like, I don’t know 10 To 15 milligrams of oxalate. I would think that’s on the higher side. Okay, because those puffs rice are going to be a little bigger than just brown rice cooked you know it’s going to be The past so it gets bigger, it’s going to take up more room. So I would estimate around 15 milligrams, I think that would be on the higher side. And if you’re having it with milk, or a plant milk that has calcium in it, I mean, you know, perfect, right? Because maybe you’re going to sprinkle it on yogurt. Maybe you’re a crunchy gal like me. Perfect. Okay, so there’s many different ways to skin a cat to lower the oxalate. I’m not worried about it. Have that as a portion size. Know that you’re eating a little bit higher oxalate, maybe 15 milligrams tops, but you’re pairing it with calcium. I’m not worried about it. I hope that makes sense. What do you think? Yeah,

Jeff Sarris
I mean, I think that’s a good estimate, too. Because just looking at the white rice cooked versus puffed. Yeah, four to two, it would make sense that 24 milligrams down to that, like 10 to 15 is a good guesstimate. But yeah, like nothing is we’re not precise here. Because everything is always going to be a little in flux. Like maybe this race has a little more maybe this race has a little less, but that’s why it’s a framework rather than a specific really tight calculation of every meal. Yeah,

Jill Harris
I like that. You’re saying it is a framework I find that students and patients they really want to get to the nitty gritty about oxalate. And honestly, when you’re now since most any nobody got their calcium beforehand, now that people are getting their calcium needs met, oxalate just really falls to the wayside. Of course, I don’t want you eating spinach every day and almonds again, but I’m just telling you the combination of taking couple of really high food the way that are high in oxalate, watching your portion sizes on everything you eat as we should be anyway, portion not perfection, right? And getting your calcium needs met. People don’t have oxalate problems anymore unless they suffer from malabsorption issues. So please enjoy Julie have that if you’re having that for breakfast, it’s absolutely fine. Also, another way to do it, if it does make you nervous, have it three days a week instead of seven days a week for breakfast, right? So mix up your foods to people don’t eat the same breakfast every day. We have a whole meal plan that you can get at kidney stone diet.com. I don’t know there’s hundreds of recipes in that thing that gives you ideas for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Sorry, you hear a buzzer because people are coming in the apartment. They’re obviously coming back from Thanksgiving vacation.

Jeff Sarris
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that is the framework that we have for kidney stone diet meal plans is to showcase how much you can eat and how you’re able to not have to give up as many things but you can find all of that at kidney stone diet.com along with all the free resources, the blog, the weekly email newsletter, the kidney stone diet prevention group, just absolutely everything and the course deep dive into what we’re talking about here, where you’re able to go on a self guided journey through really learning everything you need to know about reducing your kidney stone risk.

Jill Harris
So and also, you know, I probably by the time this airs, we’re going to have just the group calls. Now there’s a community of people that want to lose weight, they want the accountability, and you can sign up for the just the group calls are no longer attached to the kidney stone prevention course. So it’s a separate service. And it’s, you’re gonna love it. It’s a family of support that’s going to help you get through the goals of the kidney stone diet. You can certainly talk about oxalate there, bring all your questions in for me, I leave the group. But we are a family there. We all talk about very personal things. And it’s a wonderful support group. If you’re somebody who really wants to understand the kidney stone diet, and keep compliant with it long term, because these changes, folks, take a minute. Don’t let the diet industry think this is changing. You’re changing this overnight. It takes a few months, six months, I always tell people six months to a year to really create a lifestyle is what I see in my experience. So yeah, the glute calls with Jill are pretty friggin amazing.

Jeff Sarris
Yeah. So you can again find all of that at kidneystonediet.com. And thank you, Julie, again for your question. The number if you have a question is 773-789-8763. Or you can send a voice memo to podcast at kidney stone diet.com. So thanks again, or everyone who’s tuned in who’s like subscribed with a little thumbs up and for sharing these episodes, it really means a lot. We want to reach as many people as we can. So we appreciate each and every one of you. And I think with that we will wrap for this week. Thanks, Julie. See you all next time.