How important is oxalate in kidney stone prevention?

So, we're back with another episode about oxalate. How important is oxalate in kidney stone prevention?

The following is designed to entertain and inform, not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment.

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Hi, Jeff!

Hiya! So, we got a big one last week with the new oxalate list update. If you missed that by chance, head over to the YouTube channel or scroll up in your podcast player because Harvard has updated their list for the first time in decades.

So, we talk all about that. And if you want to dive deep into all the numbers and changes, you can go to kidneystonediet.com and look for the oxalate list in the menu. But this week, we are talking about oxalate and how important it is for kidney stone prevention.

You know, we're going to focus on oxalate for a bit because I am as I am, I know that people are going to lose their mind a little bit because some numbers have changed. And I think my whole career, I have been up against this whole oxalate thing. Oxalate, oxalate, oxalate.

You know, and the fear that goes along with eating an oxalate, and this I'm not going to make a joke about because I've had thousands of patients, so many of them, I would say at least 90% of all the patients I've talked to, at least 90%. I'm being very conservative. The first thing, the main thing they want to talk about with me is oxalate, because you can be rest assured that when you Google kidney stone, that is the one thing that's going to come up, that and some damn lemons and water, okay?

Which I don't mind the water. But Jeff, there are some days I just pull my little curly hair out over oxalate. Now, for somebody who's had a lot of illness in her life with cancer and treatment and all the all the stuff I deal with on a daily day because of all my surgeries, I nobody sympathizes more, nobody understands more that what you're going through, nobody understands anxiety and illness, and specifically illness and eating, because I have a lot of bowel issues, so can I eat this?

I can't. I'm in the bathroom all day. Oh my god, I ate the same thing I did yesterday.

Yesterday, I was fine. Today, I'm not. I mean, so when you have a disease or medical condition that has to do with eating, you can drive yourself nutty.

Low-oxalate ones, of course, but you know what I'm saying, people, so I'm not judging anybody. I'm not. I'm just telling you, I so get this.

I have food journals. Oh my god, what should I do? Should I eat this?

Is it better if I don't eat, and I won't go to the bathroom. So, this comes from somebody who is sitting in the same pair of pants as you are, okay? I mean, I so get it, so I want you to understand that.

I'm not being glib. I'm not being none of it. I get it, I get it, I get it.

It's one of the reasons I don't travel. I'm too afraid. I can't eat at the airport.

I'm going to be on the plane going to the bathroom, bothering people, go I get it. I get it. So, I want to make that clear with you.

But oxalate, I want you to really listen to what I'm talking about here, and you're talking to somebody who has 25 years of doing this. I am looking at follow-up urine collections every single day, all day long. That is what I'm looking at.

I talked to Timmy 4 months ago. His oxalate reading was 75. We talked, he fixed.

I'm looking at the follow-up now. Look at this, it's 22. Am I a genius?

No, I gave him advice, and he listened to it, and he turned his life around. The oxalate part he will tell me, "That was the easiest thing ever, Jill. It's the salt and sugar crap I got to deal with.

It's hard." So, what I'm here to tell you is although I understand how you want these numbers to be, and if it's 14 as opposed to 3, you're going to eat it or you're not going to eat it, please don't live your life like that. You can eat all foods. I take away spinach and almond products because those are two really high products that people tend to overeat.

Okay? So, there are other high foods, but people don't tend to overeat them daily. Now, you may say, "Hey, I always eat sweet potatoes." For you, Jean, don't.

Don't eat as many sweet potatoes. Okay? So, but I guess the point is what I'm saying is, always eat a variety of foods.

Some of you have gotten your new Harvard list, the updated one, at kidneystonediet.com, and you're like, "Damn, blueberries are higher now, and I've been eating bushels of them because I thought they were so low." Please don't do that with any food, even if you think it's low. And I know it's annoying. Here's what else people tell me, "Jill, I can't think about food all day long." Either people are worried about it, or they don't want to think about it at all, so they eat the same four foods for 50 years, and they're overeating those foods.

So, I'm asking people like Goldilocks: not too much, not too little, just right. So, you eat a wide variety of foods in normal portions. So, you want some peanut butter?

Peanut butter went up a little. A lot? No, a little.

Am I going to ever take peanut butter away from you guys? No. Is peanut butter something that if you have one spoonful, you're eating the whole jar?

No peanut butter for you! Just like I can't have a cracker, no cracker for me, because I'm addicted, I like crunching. So, when people Google kidney stones, it's I'm up against a lot with oxalate, just because that is definitely something that's talked about, and every single list is something different, says something different.

I've always told you that the Harvard list is super it works. But is it the Harvard list, or is it any list that I first would have started with? Simply because it's the advice I'm giving.

So, oxalate is important at the beginning for about 32 seconds. You have a conversation with me, we're going to talk about oxalate for 5 minutes, and you're going to get it. Now, if you want to vent a little bit more about it, the call's yours, but 5 minutes is all I need to really teach you about oxalate.

The rest: sugar, salt, water, calcium, and the other things, meat protein, that's 5 seconds, too. Sugar, salt, and water and calcium? Well, that's going to be ours, and that's why you join the Kidney Stone Prevention Course, or you can do a private consult.

But oxalate, it's what you're focused on, but it's it has very little to do with kidney stones once you stop overeating the really high foods and get your calcium. And Jeff, I mean, you know, we've been doing this for years together. It's I can't say it enough, right?

And you can think, "Well, girl, I hear you," but people don't, because they're so worried about having that trauma again of going through not only the pain of a kidney stone, that's the beginning of it, the surgeries, the cost, the time off work, the stents, the recovery, and then the overall fear of getting another one.

So, you So, like I said, because I've been so sick, I understand where it's coming from. But I have the answer for you, and if people will just go with that advice, anybody on my Facebook group that's been there for years will say, "Oh, we don't we don't count oxalate anymore, we don't count oxalate at all." So, what do you have to say about this, Jeff?

Well, yeah, and it comes down to habits. So, like habits don't feel as for lack of a better term, as sexy as being like, "Oh, let me take oxalate away." Because that's something new, that's it's almost like the new superfood thing that it's like, "I'm going to consume a lot of this and be healthy." It's like, "Oh, oxalate is the opposite of a superfood.

Let me take it away. Let me focus everything there." Oh, but what I eat all the rest of the time, that's that's hard. That's that's not as simple or as fun or as binary.

It's It's big. It's a big change. And that's why these are These are rules.

These are rules you've shared with people, sort of guidelines, maybe better than rules, but guidelines on how they can improve their health, and it's not just flick a switch and take oxalate out.

Yes, I think I think you're absolutely right. And the other thing is let's let's make sure we don't let's make sure we call out the people that have say they had diabetes, or, you know, they had heart disease, whatever, they're on a really before they knew anything about kidney stones, they are on a healthy journey. They have changed their whole life to find so they got rid of all the shitty food, and they started eating super healthy food just to find out that, "Are you kidding me?

Now I have a kidney stone? I finally eat healthy, and my healthy diet caused the stone? Are you kidding me?" It's not the healthy diet that caused your stone, just like it's not keto or paleo or whatever.

It's how you guys did those diets by choosing the same few foods over and over again. You can have a healthy diet. We're just not asking you We're just asking you not to overeat the highest oxalate foods, and that's really anything over, you know, 50 and above, overeating.

So, sweet potatoes can be higher, but you can have one once a week. It's overeating every single day without the calcium. So, you know, those people, and I get so many patients that come to me for private, and they're like, "Jill, I can't tell you how proud I was of myself that I was eating spinach for the first time, I was eating almonds, I was so good at snacking.

You know, we went to Costco, and we got the mixed nuts, unsalted even, Jill, and here I am with a kidney stone," you know? And so, it's really frustrating and disheartening for people that have already been through this huge change, and now what they think, before they got with me, when they're just Googling and they see oxalate, they're, "Oh, my god.

This is all I've been eating is this." So, you know, and then all these lists say all these different things are high oxalate, so people think there's nothing they have left to eat. And I'm here to tell you, people, that you absolutely Even with the Harvard changes that have just come up, you know, even though some– something like blueberries are higher, it doesn't matter.

Just don't eat so many of them all the time. Put them in your yogurt, it's okay. I'm not going to give up blueberries, are you kidding me?

And, you know, and as far as the raspberries, if a food is one level from one study and another level from another study, and at one study, they said they're really high, I'm going to eat those in moderation. I'm not going to eat a raspberry now oh as much as I want just because they're saying it's lower. I'm not doing that, because there's no perfect number.

But in the same token, I'm telling you, the oxalate piece of the Kidney Stone Diet, of preventing kidney stones, is truly, once you get this, this information I'm giving now, the least important part of kidney stone prevention. It's the least. No one working with me, or being on that Facebook group, or listening to me holler in these YouTube, they stop counting the oxalate.

They just stay away from the hard- the highest ones, and they really focus on the salt and sugar because, listen, guys, every time you go out to eat, boom, there's your salt, there's your salt, I mean, for the day, right? So, that's much harder than pay- than eating a lower oxalate diet. And a lower oxalate diet is around we say in the Kidney Stone Diet goals, 100 milligrams of oxalate a day, very, very doable.

Most of my patients don't get anywhere near 75, and they're eating a very healthy, robust, satisfying diet, not giving up all their superfoods. So, that's what kills me, too, is when people just stop eating fruits and vegetables. That just pains me because we need our fruits and vegetables, right?

So, it's the least part. It's the least important part, guys, of the Kidney Stone Diet. It really is.

At first, it seems like it's the biggest because you read about it so much, but it's not. It's just not.

Yeah, I think that's a really important note and a good spot to leave off. If you have any questions about oxalate or any other questions about kidney stone prevention, the Kidney Stone Diet, the phone number is 773-789-8763. You can leave us a voicemail and we will feature you on a future episode.

Or if you're outside of the States, you can send a voice memo to [email protected], and, yeah, we go through all of them. We have some backlog right now, so we will get to your question. Thank you for everyone who has called in.

But we'd love to hear from you as well. And for those of you who have asked, "Do you have a Patreon? Is there extra content?" There's nothing additional, but just it was a way to support the show and support what we do for those of you who want to do that.

That again is patreon.com/kidneystonediet. But for all the free information, all the premium products, the course, the meal plans, everything, you can go to kidneystonediet.com and find absolutely everything you need to improve your life and reduce your risk for kidney stones. So, I think with that, we'll wrap for this week.

Thanks again for tuning in. Thanks for liking, subscribing, sharing it with a friend, and we will see you next time.

Bye, everybody. Don't worry about oxalate, I promise.