Does it feel like there’s nothing left to eat on a low oxalate diet?

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I am Jill Harris. Jill and Jeff. Harris and Sarris.

Your kidney stone prevention nurses, happy to be here, Jeff.

Yeah, it is funny when we first did your site, I couldn't help but like look at your name in the header and always see mine. Because like same number of characters, almost the same letters even.

It's weird.

Yeah, it's it's funny. But, yeah, no relation. I know someone actually asked.

They thought that we were related, but no, we are not. We're just, we're friends and partners in this journey and building this.

Yep.

So, this week we are changing it up. We're not going to do a question. We are going to do a, I guess it is a question, but it is a frequently asked question within the community on the Kidney Stone Prevention Diet on Facebook.

So, what are we what are what's up today, Jill?

Okay, so, and I love talking about this one so much. So, it is the most, it is the most popular thing whether people get on the phone with me because they're paying for a private call or they're in the free Facebook group, whatever it is. "Jill, I got nothing to eat."

And so, what I love is debunking that. So, if your doctor has done anything, they threw an oxalate list at you and they told you to drink more water. That's basically what people get.

And once you start Googling oxalate, well, holy bejesus! You're going to think you can't eat anything. And one list says this and another list says that and you don't know what's going on.

And it is so overwhelming and it is just like disheartening and demoralizing. And so, that is the most frequent thing I hear. "Jill, there ain't nothing to eat.

I can't eat anything anymore. I've cut out everything from my diet. What am I supposed to do, eat carbs all day?"

That's very, people think, "Okay, I'm going to go on a high-starch diet." Oh my god, please don't do that, especially if you're diabetic, obviously, right? So, it's very confusing to people. Most of my job, most of my job is bringing foods back to people, showing them what they can eat, how they're going to incorporate back into their diet.

The problem with kidney stone formers, calcium oxalate in particularly—

In particular, Jeff? Or in particularler?

I like in particularler.

Yeah, I like in particularler. That's what we're going to go with. So, in particularler, is when is, I don't even know what I was going to say now.

In particularler. Well, the point is this, we tend to eat the same foods over and over that are really high in oxalate. So, like sweet potatoes.

I work with bodybuilders. "Jill,

I got a kidney stone." Well, you're eating five freaking sweet potatoes a day, Henry. What'd you expect? And you ain't getting no calcium, so your oxalate's sky high.

And can you eat anymore chicken? Because eating chicken, broccoli, and sweet potatoes every day five times a day, I don't even know what people are thinking in the bodybuilding world, God bless them.

Anyway, they don't want to think about it. They have to eat a lot, or so they think, to build their muscle, and so that's what they're doing. But anyway, most of my job is bringing food back to people, showing them that within normal portions, normal portions, people—I'm going to say that one more time—normal portions, you can eat most foods,

Even if they're on the higher oxalate list. On kidneystonediet.com, our website, we have the Safe Oxalate List. And if you go through that list, you're going to be like, "Hey, she has this food, which I know is higher in oxalate, on the safe list." Well, yeah.

If you get 100 mg a day, which we allow people to get 100 mg a day, unless your doctor has told you otherwise, because you have a bariatric surgery or malabsorption issues,

You can easily fit most of those foods back into your diet. The point was you were overeating spinach. You were overeating buckwheat groats.

People do, and it's hundreds of milligrams. Beet juice, beet salads, beets, beets, beets. So you're choosing the highest oxalate foods because you were heard they were healthy, and then you ate them in any quantity you wanted because more of that would be more health, right?

That's what we think. And it makes sense until you make a kidney stone. So look, for some people, they can get away with that.

They're not genetically prone to make kidney stones. But some people are. A lot of people are.

Millions of patients in the world are. So for so, in general, part of the Kidney Stone Diet, which we don't have in a graph or on a goal, but I will sing it all the time, is we need to eat all foods within a normal portion size.

There's a lot of food in the world, people. Spread it out. So when you come to me and say there's nothing to eat, I'm going to push back and then I'm going to teach you why there is lots to eat and you can absolutely bring foods back like a sweet potato.

Do you have to eat a whole one? Can you split one with your partner?

I have a sweet potato right in my basket, but I am going to eat a fourth of it on my meals, with my meals, not the whole thing, okay? Because that's as big as me. I don't need a whole sweet potato.

But because we know it's a healthier product, we tend to overeat it along with, people, please pay attention to what I'm saying, along with not getting any calcium into your diet. That is key

Because the only way oxalate can leave your body is to join with calcium and leave through the stool. So if you're not eating or drinking things that have calcium in it, you're not going to get rid of the excess oxalate. So, you have plenty to eat.

Diabetics will say, "Oh my god, what am I going to do? I can't have this, I can't have that on diabetes. I can't have this." You can.

You can. Just watch the portion size on some of these things. Now spinach, because it's 600 plus milligrams a cup, you can't have that no more.

I know you're sad about it, but you're going to have to get over it, because stents and ureteroscopy are a lot worse than your cup of spinach. So you're just going to have to get over it. I'm going to tell a woman who can't eat no garlic.

I'm sad, I know, I feel your pain with your spinach.

But, it is what it is. But maybe five things I take away. Go look at that Safe Oxalate List.

See all the foods you can eat. Learn how to incorporate those foods into your diet so you do it safely and stay under your 100 mg of oxalate a day allotment, unless otherwise your doctor told you.

Okay? So, that's always I'm going to say that at the end, because some people will get in the comments and say, "Jill, my surgeon said 50." Well, because that's what your surgeon said, because you had a weight loss surgery, so you will have absorption problems now. So, you know, it's different for everybody, but the majority of people can safely have 100 mg of oxalate a day.

And also, that's conservative, by the way, people,

Because if you get your calcium, you Just keep it at 100 to be safe. But, and if you ever wonder, again, do your follow-up urine collections to see where your oxalate levels are. So you get a feel for what foods, because at the end of the day, we all absorb things differently.

Jeff and I are going to eat the same food. I'm going to absorb more or less than he is, just because we have different a genetic makeup, right? So, we It's not There's The thing about diets in general,

And this is why the Kidney Stone Diet is a set of goals. We're not telling you all the things you like take away carbs or make sure you eat this, don't eat that, except for spinach and almonds really, or really high oxalate products, which is like a handful. We're telling you, "Here's your goals.

Here's your sugar goal, here's your salt goal, here's your meat protein goal,

Here's your calcium goal, here's your hydration goal, and here's your oxalate goal." If you want to be a vegan or vegetarian or paleo or whatever you want to do, we're cool with that. Because we want you to eat foods that you're going to be able to do long-term to keep you healthy. And what is healthy for my body may not be healthy for Jeff's body.

And I don't know, I just don't understand why the diet industry is telling people in general

What is the best thing for everyone. I don't get it, because we all have different medical conditions, we all have different food sensitivities and allergies. So, I think that's what leads to more confusing, you know, the more confusing aspects of diets for patients, too, because they're like, "Okay, I see that diet says that, but I can't eat those things." Or like, you know, whatever.

There's certain things you may have that diet's not going to work for you. So,

I guess what I'm saying, people, is on the Kidney Stone Diet, we're giving you a set of goals. How you get there is your own business. We want you to do it within reason, things, healthy things within normal portion sizes that maintain those goals so you lower your stone risk.

Okay? But also, remember, how you do it is up to you. So you do have control.

So if you want half a sweet potato, however much oxalate that is, minus it from your total of 100, and you got that much more to play with for the day. And if you're deciding to eat something that's particularly higher in oxalate, make sure you pair your calcium-based beverage with that or food, like yogurt, or there's non-dairy sources of things, and that will help lower your oxalate levels, too.

But,

It's complicated and that's why, you know, it's complicated. That's why we offer the premium services we do, so you can get educated. That's why we're doing the YouTube channel.

That's why we put on the Facebook, group, because it's very complicated and trying to get this down into bite-sized pieces, is hard. It just is, people. And we're supposed to, the diet industry wants us to think that everything's easy, breezy, and if you don't get it in a week, there's something wrong with you.

Changing your whole diet, you're damn right it's hard. It's going to take time. Listen, and then I'll shut up, Jeff.

If I say, "I want to start learning to paint. I'm going to paint today." Do I think in a month I'm going to be a Rembrandt? I'm not going to be, people!

Why do we think we're supposed to change our diet in 10 days and we should know everything? I've dedicated my entire career to studying nutrition.

Not only that, how people change, habits, all of it. If I say this to one person, it may not work for another person. So listening skills, communication, all of it, it's difficult to get these messages to people, because everyone is so very different.

So, that's all. I don't even know where, you know, you never know where I'm going to go with this stuff. I don't know where I'm going to go.

Jeff's like, "Is she is she done? Because I need a nap now after all that."

Oh, no. But this is why we have the premium products. So, like the meal plans, it's inspiration.

It's not "eat this, eat that, eat this." It's inspiration to see how you can fit this lifestyle, this diet into your current lifestyle. And, like you said, whether you're, vegan, paleo, vegetarian, whatever it is, there can there's different paths that

People can take, but we have meal plans for the inspiration. But you have the one-on-one or one-on-one and group calls as the way to help tailor this to people. So, like someone coming in that will be a part of the course then gets access immediately to the group calls where, where you're right there working with them.

Right. And because everyone's different, I may have 10 people in those group calls and Tammy's saying this, and then Pam's saying that, and Henry's saying this, and everybody's saying different things. That's why one diet will not work for everybody.

So you've got to listen to all these people and figure out how are you going to help them incorporated incorporate the changes they need for what's going on

With them. And there's different stone types, and there's different secondary medical conditions that are leading to the stones. So, it's complicated.

This is why your urologists, who are surgeons, people, and their job is to get those stones safely out of your urinary tract. That's a big enough job! They didn't study nutrition and then teach you how to incorporate all these things.

That's not what their deal is. They're surgeons.

So, you know, it's it's just it's tough, because, you know, you're also going to a doctor that is dealing with something different. The treatment plan, and there's certainly are urologists that can help a patient do a treatment plan, but a lot can't. And so, we get mad at our urologists because, "How come they're not fixing all this?

Where's my treatment plan?" They're They're taking stones out of you, and we need them to be very good at what they do. So then, you know, you get help elsewhere, and this is we're giving you the help elsewhere, so here it is, people.

Yeah, so I think that was great. I mean, that really covers the gamut, because that is the big question. That's what you're seeing all the time, is, "I don't have anything to eat.

What do I eat?"

Yes! And there's plenty to eat, I promise. Plenty to eat.

There's nothing I take away except the very like, you know, 75 mg of oxalate and over. So there's like five, seven foods, that's it. Otherwise, you can safely incorporate everything, people.

You just got to figure out the how, for you.

Yeah, for sure. And to find the Safe Oxalate List and find more resources, you can head over to kidneystonediet.com. And if you have a specific question, because we will be taking listener questions again, in future episodes, we have a phone number.

It's 773-789-8763 and we will feature your question on another episode.

So yeah, I think that was good, good place to wrap. So, thanks again everyone for listening and we will see you next time.

Bye, guys!