What is the Kidney Stone Diet?

Inspire.

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Do you know, Jeff,

Yeah. When we were just doing our thing, every time the intro starts, I feel like we're trying not to look at each other and laugh. Not laugh like, just like a little

Little giggle. I just feel like that. It's like when you're in the library when you're a kid, and the librarian is shushing you.

That's how I feel, which tells you I'm like have the mind of a 12-year-old.

Oh, no. But it's it's true, though, because we're it's like that awkward time, because the music is playing, and it's like, what do we what do we do, you know?

I know. I hate it.

But, it's good. But, yeah, so we're going to this week dive into some topics that, we just haven't touched on in the show so far. We still have some questions.

Like, we'd love if you keep sending in your questions. We're going to have, be taking more of the questions in future episodes. Even just,

We're batch recording today like we always do, so it'll be some, that we'll be recording today. But we wanted to dive into, yeah, just a specific Kidney Stone Diet topic today, and what's on the schedule, Jill?

Okay, so I got a bunch. I got a few up my sleeve, and I think the first one, I'm looking at my phone cuz I wrote them down. I think the first one is,

What the heck is the Kidney Stone Diet? Let's talk about that because, you know, in a lot of these videos we've broken it down.

But what is the Kidney Stone Diet? What it is comprise What it What are all the elements in one little kit and caboodle. So,

I'm going to, and I'm going to tell you how it came about. Everyone's like, "No one asked, Jill." I don't care. You're going to listen anyway, and so is Jeff.

So, here's how it came about. Jeff knows.

Dr. Co, that's my mentor. That's Fred Co, C-O-E, and you can find him at kidneystone.uchicago.edu.

You can also find me over there, as well.

But he's my mentor, and I've been lucky to have him for over two decades. And, he's a wonderful man. Anyway, he's also the granddaddy of kidney stone prevention.

So, he's done all the science. He knows all the people that have done a lot of science. So, he writes articles on kidney stones and kidney stone prevention on his website.

One day, we were working together,

And we said, "Let's put all the elements of the Kidney Stone Diet in one article." The article's over at his website.

And when we wrote it, he's like, "What should we call it?"

And we said, "Let's just call it the Kidney Stone Diet."

It's simple, and, you know, everybody wants to know a diet, so we called it the Kidney Stone Diet.

And let me tell you what it is.

Everybody comes to me, "Jill, how much oxalate's in this? Jill, how much oxalate's in this?"

I'm going to save oxalate for the last. This is the last This is the least amount This is the least important thing.

See, I get I'm all jumbled up because it really annoys me. Listen.

Oxalate we're going to save till last at the end of this video.

First thing, get your fluids.

How many? How much fluid, Jill?

Well, you want to drink enough fluid

That you urinate 2.5 to 3 L a day. So, what Jeff has to drink,

You know, he's a big guy. I'm a little lady. I'm only 5'2".

How tall are you, Jeff?

Yeah, I'm 6'4". Yeah, no one can tell from the camera because, yeah, just shoulders up, but, yeah, when we stand side by side, it's very apparent that our heights are a little different.

It's hilarious. You know, and people are always like, "You're only 5'2"?" It's I only have a big mouth, that's it. Okay.

So, yes, Jeff may have to drink more than me, although I'm very middle aged and sweat even on a chilly day, and I exercise a lot. So does Jeff. But I mean we, if I ate more salt than Jeff, he'd have to drink less than me.

I mean, there's so many variants.

So, that's why we don't say, "Hey, you got to drink this much."

We don't say that. We tell you what we would like the output to be. And it's 2 and 1/2

To 3 L a day. How do I know if I'm peeing that much, Jill? Well,

If you've done a urine collection before, you can save those big jugs and you can check here and there so you can make sure you're on track,

Or, you know, you can do things like save it in a Tupperware, whatever. Figure it out, people.

But, 2 and 1/2 to 3 L,

All fluids count, but water is best. So, mainly, you want the main fluid to be water. Okay?

Do you have any questions on the water part, Jeff?

Oh, yeah, I think the tracking it is a challenge because it's so out of the realm of our, typical experience. If someone hasn't done a urine collection before, urine analysis, then it is it's sort of like, "Oh, how do I figure that out?" But, yeah, throwing it in Tupperware, I'd say just not the Tupperware you're using for your leftover chicken, you know.

Yeah, totally. You know, you're going to throw that Tupperware out. But I think the thing is, too, first of all, people, you should be getting a urine collection done.

There she goes again, but you should.

I just had a patient today I worked with, and they're like, "My doctor put me on these three things." "Did you do a urine collection?" "No." "Well, okay, but as a nurse, I don't override any doctor's orders,"

So I sent her back and said, "You may want to put in the portal, write your doctor, 'Doc Dear Doctor, may I have a urine collection so I can really figure out

What I need to do to prevent new stones?'" Because maybe the things she was told is really not going to help, and

Or when you're told a couple things, you do those two things, but you don't do the rest of the Kidney Stone Diet, okay? So, you think you're doing every single thing that you can do to prevent stones and maybe those two things weren't even something you needed to do. So,

And oxalate's a big one, right? A lot of people are just like, "Oh, oxalate is it," ignore, not ignore the rest, but maybe they're they're not informed about the rest and all the other important parts.

Exactly, or another generic thing to do is take you know, suck on a lemon. You may not need a lemon, okay? So, then patients wind up losing their

Teeth enamel,

And just sucking on a lemon, sucking on a lemon, and it's not even something they needed to do once they do finally do a urine collection, okay? So, you know, you need to do a urine collection to find out what your treatment plan really should be.

So, fluids.

Also, another kind of generic,

"Am I in the ballpark of peeing enough?" If your urine looks like water coming out of you, you're doing a good job. Once you see that it starts getting tinged with some color, start drinking a little bit more, okay?

Yeah, that's a really good, metric, I think, because, like, we notice that. That's something we're used to seeing, and you see those times when it is just, I mean, so vivid and you're like, "Ooh, I am definitely dehydrated."

Yes, and kidney stone patients definitely, "Oh, holy braghole, I better start drinking," because their urine looks, you know, very, very yellow or, sometimes, brown. So, they're like, "Holy braghole, I got to get some more water in me." So, it is a good, kind of generic indicator to see if you're, getting enough water. And that may not be enough water, but you're doing okay, right?

Okay, so you want to get your fluids.

Number two, go ahead, sip.

Number two, you want to lower your sodium.

I'm going to go off on a little here.

Lo So, the first goal is it doesn't mean you have to do it in this order. These are just the elements. So, you want to get enough fluids.

Number two, you want to lower your sodium.

It is advised that you get down to 1,500 mg a day. American Heart people say this. All Everybody says this.

Kidney stone people say this.

It used to be 2,300 mg a day. It's been lowered again recently, 1,500 mg a day. Now,

Some people will say, "Well, shouldn't we even do it lower than that, Jill?" I say start there, please. And then if you need to lower it less than that, talk to your doctor about it,

Because

The average person is, you know, 3,000, 4,000 mg of sodium a day. So, there's two things I think about. When we tell a patient, say the patient's eating 5,000 mg of sodium a day, "How do I know, Jill?" You've done a urine collection, and it will say you how much salt you had that day in your urine.

So, if you if you're eating about 5,000 mg of sodium a day

And you hear me screaming to get down to 1,500, or your doctor's screaming get down to 1,500, or just lower your sodium, it's very difficult to do that when you're so high,

Which is the average people, really, in America, you know? But then to go from 5,000 or 4,000 or 3,000 all the way down to 1,500, you're not going to do that overnight. And so, what I have found in my experience of working with patients for so many years is that

Patients are like, "My food tastes disgusting.

I cannot do this.

I'm out."

So, I like to wean my patients off slowly. If they're at 4,000 mg of sodium a day, I'm like, "Hey, let's practice getting down to 2,500. That's where we're going to go right now." Maybe even 3,000, depending on what they're telling me, okay?

Because if their food tastes terrible, again, they're not going to be compliant for the long haul,

And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for compliance to the next follow-up urine collection.

I'm looking for actual lifestyle changes that the patient's like, "Okay, I got this, and this is my new lifestyle."

Right? So, I like weaning off. Again, if your doctor wants you to go low, listen,

Any doctor I've ever worked with is going to be thrilled if somebody gets down to 1,500 mg a day because that's really great.

But, some people may maybe they can go a little lower. That's fine for them. Talk to your doctor about that.

Does that make sense, Jeff?

It definitely does. And I mean some of the sources, too, outside of just cooking a meal and salting it. I mean, it's a lot of the packaged products, right?

And different things that we might just grab and go and grab some snacks, and they're just loaded with sodium.

Yes, everybody says the first thing I mean I could just it's something. The first thing people say to me is, "I don't use a saltshaker." Well, I hope you don't, because salt is in every single thing you eat.

So, even people before when they talk to me before their urine collection, they'll say, "Oh, Jill, I eat a low-salt diet."

Then they do their urine collection, and it's 3,000 mg a day. Why? Because they're not turning it around, Buster Brown.

You must turn your packages around. Look at baking soda. I love capers, Jill.

Turn it around. You'll see the little salt bombs, as is olives. I mean, there's some things that you would never look at a nutrition label, ever, in your whole life, but then when you do, you're like, "Oh, my god, who'd have thunk it?" And I that has to be the most common thing every day I hear, "I had no idea I was eating that much salt."

Even foods like just naturally-occurring salt, in eggs, in milk, you know, the cow, the chicken, they ate from the ground, there's sodium in the dirt, and it's naturally occurring.

"Jill, do I got to count all the sodium in a hard-boiled egg?"

I don't care about that. People are going to be like, "Really?" I really don't.

I want people to start with just getting rid of packaged foods. Don't be worried about no egg, the naturally-occurring sodium in an egg, that's the least of your problems. If you want to tweak that way later, God bless.

But at the beginning, just look at your packages. Don't worry about anything else, and you will get it down over time. You'll be good.

So, salt, 1,500 mg a day, that is the goal.

The other thing I'm going to tell you about these goals,

You're not going to do them every single darn day.

Don't be thinking just because you ate 2,000 mg of salt one day, "Oh, it's over!

I'm terrible! Forget it! I can't do this!" Okay.

It's okay. You're going to have birthdays. You're going to have things come up.

You're going to go out to eat with your husband, or your wife, or your partner, and

You're going to go over your salt budget some days. That's okay. Get right back on it.

That's all I care about. So, salt, 1,500 mg a day.

Anything else you want to say on that, Jeff?

Well, it's just like sugar, right? You'll get to sugar, I know. But you talk about added sugar.

This is sort of like added salt that we're looking at, added sodium, versus, like you said, not the stuff that's naturally occurring and coming in whole foods because like, well, not literally not the company Whole Foods, but whole food foodstuffs that you'll eat, because that is it's different. It's a different delivery mechanism and everything that it's not just a salt bomb into your body.

You know, and here's the thing that

When my patients I have many overweight patients, and they'll say, "I'm having such a hard time losing weight,

And I've heard that the Kidney Stone Diet will help you lose weight." Well, yeah, it's going to help you lose weight because you're lowering your sugar, you're lowering your salt, and those two things, added sugar, those,

Excuse me, those two things are going to have you

Retain water.

So, we all know that when we eat too much salt, we bloat, and we retain water. Sugar does the same thing to us. Too much added sugar will also cause us to gain water weight, does the same thing.

So, the nice added benefit when we teach people to lower salt and lower added sugar, they will lose weight. Number one, they're eating healthier foods for the most part,

But they're going to lose a lot of water weight, which is very inspiring and motivating when you start this journey. You will lose good, you know, well, it depends for everybody. I don't want people writing me in the comments, "You said five pounds.

I only lost three." Well, you only weigh 130 lb, he weighs 300 lb, he's going to weigh less. Okay, so what else? Added sugar.

Added sugar. Pay attention, people.

People always say, "Jill said,"

This is what Jill says on added sugar:

25 g a day for women,

37.5, I just bump it up and give them 38, 38 g of added sugar for men.

Again, American Heart Association says this,

And kidney stone people say this. This is what our government also is hoping that we can stay under, because sugar is

Wow. We eat a lot of sugar in this country, and it really causes us causes inflammation, causes weight gain, diabetes,

Heart disease, strokes, cardiovascular disease, redundant, I know, but all of it, people. All of it.

So, added sugar.

Added sugar is now parsed out on the nutrition label.

Sugar people are real mad about this.

So, I think that there's many different things. The government is, you know, wants to parse it out because it's our medical system is so overwrought with all these chronic diseases, and too much added sugar can lead to obesity, which can lead to all these

Comorbidities, like I said, those diseases we were talking about.

So

It's very important to keep your added sugar low,

Okay?

In kidney stone disease specifically, added sugar, and also too much salt,

Will pull calcium from your bone and dump it into the urine.

So, this is why we're concerned about it.

Too much added sugar and too much salt will take precious calcium from your bone and dump it into your urine, so it's very important. When there's excess calcium running around in your urine, and that's where these other minerals like oxalate and phosphate can connect to it

And form stones. So, that's that's why specifically we want you to lower those two things in kidney stone disease.

So, the sugar people are not happy that added sugar is parsed out.

I think I'm grateful to the keto people because they've made people very aware of added sugar,

And so

Because so many people did keto,

Which, by the way, a lot of people who do keto, they're now my patients, so I'm not a fan of the way keto is done.

And if you're on the keto diet, and also want to prevent kidney stones, I can certainly help you do both. You can stay on keto diet, there's just some tweaks.

So I think the keto people have made patients really aware of added sugar in their products, which has been awesome.

Sugar people have

I like to I like to tie that to paleo, too, because that's where I came from, and, yeah, being that, like, because paleo, when it started, was all lifestyle. It's low-carb,

Not necessarily high-fat, not like high-fat like keto. It's more getting rid of processed foods, staying lower carb, and realizing that the reason all this added sugar is in there is as soon as we went low-fat,

Everything tastes like cardboard. So, if you don't add sugar, you have no taste in this in the processed and packaged foods, and, yeah, it really goes so far. Like, it's gone so far to really hinder, like, our collective health, unfortunately, because we went sort of down the wrong path.

Not to say going through the roof with fat is the right idea either, but it's that balance. Like you say, it's it's portion, not perfection, but balancing everything out.

Yeah, I mean, look, when we take away one food group, whatever that is, we always are told, "Give up this, but you could eat as much as you want of that." This doesn't work, people, for most. There's always somebody, "Worked for me." Good. Keep on doing it, whatever works for you, okay?

Paleo, Jeff's right. Like Atkins, things like that, you know, what happened? You Jeff may be a little young, but people my age, under remember the SnackWell's.

We got rid of all the, you know, low-fat, but they loaded them up with sugar because guess what, guys? If the food man The food manufacturers do listen.

So, they know right now that people are wanting low added sugar, zero sugar, okay? So, what are they going to do? They're going to pump it up with salt because the food manufacturers also have to answer to the, their board.

So, you know, they can make things that have low sugar, but they'll they'll put it in front of front of focus groups, and the focus group is like, "There's no salt in here. These are disgusting." So, they have to also make money. It's what their job is.

It's a company. So, we've got to remember, when you see a label that says no added sugar or zero sugar, turn it around, Buster Brown, because I'm going to tell you right now, unless it's notebook paper, there's a buttload of salt in that product. Same thing, if something's low salt, they're going to add sugar to the product.

It's very difficult, unless you're I mean, it's just very difficult to get A condiment is a great example. You're never going to have low sugar and low salt. If you turn those around, I've gone to supermarkets and done live videos on Facebook.

If you do that, you'll find barbecue sauce with low no sugar, but it's going to have a ton of salt, and vice versa. So, that's how it does. Salad dressings is another great example.

So, added sugar is difficult. How do you know if something's been added? It will say it on the label now as It will be sugar and then below that, on your nutrition label, it will be parsed out as added sugar.

If you're ever confused that there's sugar in a product, look at the ingredients: cane sugar, honey, molasses, brown rice syrup, these things, anything that ends in -ose, these are all sugars. You may say, "But honey's natural." But

If we added honey

To cotton,

Now that cotton,

I made it up.

Now the cotton has added sugar.

Yes, it came out of a bee's butt, but it's still added sugar to a product. I have patients argue that all the time, and it is confusing. I get why they argue it, cuz it is a natural sugar, but so is sugar.

It's natural. But if it's in something, it's added sugar, right? And it's so confusing with honey that if you look at the back of your nutrition label, it will have what looks like a little cross almost, and it's an extra thing that says, "Yeah, we know you think it ain't added, but it is." Okay?

The FDA had a rule on that, actually,

To get that as an added sugar. So, they went back and forth with that, and then it was deemed an added sugar. So, anyway, sugars are hard for people.

Salt is hard for people. For some, both are hard, but usually somebody's a sweetie or a salty, you know? So, the added sugar is difficult, but I will tell you guys this, that once you lower your sh sugar and your salt, you will find, after a while, and it can happen overnight, that you will have less cravings, which is really awesome.

So, I have a very low-salt diet, a very low-sugar diet, and I get cravings sometimes, but not really a lot. And when you do have something salty, you're like, "That's disgusting." And I know you're like, "That will never happen to me." I promise you, it will happen to you. So, give it some time.

A good average is about For salt, most of my patients within 2 weeks, if they're really being compliant and diligent, they're like In 2 weeks, I felt a difference. Sugar is harder for people, I'll just say that. And it doesn't mean you can't, again, have your favorite thing, just get right back on track, that's all I'm asking.

You're not going to be perfect at this. Anything for you, Jeff?

Well, yeah, again, like this is this isn't just a diet, like we think of like the on-again, off-again diet, where the Kidney Stone Diet is a lifestyle, so it's our diet. Like I feel like there's a just a really strong distinction there: a diet versus our diet, and our diet sometimes is phenomenal,

Sometimes we're having a rough day, it might not be the best, but we can always get right back on the wagon and keep going and moving forward.

We always have that choice, and people forget that because, you know, I think the diet industry has really drilled into our heads, and we've drilled into our own heads, we're either on something or off something. We have very black and white thinking around this, and I want everyone to remember this is a practice. I practice healthy eating every day.

Don't mean I succeed, but I practice it. And here's the key, which we're going to do a video on this today, too, when you when you notice that you had a little something extra, you just notice it, you say, "I'm going to get back on track with the next meal choice." That's all you got to do, that's all you have to do, okay?

All right, so that's salt, sugar, water. The next thing is calcium. This is also a very difficult one.

Calcium is part of the Kidney Stone Diet. "Why do I have to get so much calcium, Jill, when I'm already have a lot of it in my urine? Why would I want more?" Well, you're losing that from your bone in a lot of cases, so you definitely have to replenish.

Yeah, that is so scary. Like, I never realized that before.

I know. It is very scary, because Dr. Co always says this, "Wherever you see a stone clinic, a bone clinic is close by." These two diseases go hand-in-hand.

Why? Because of the calcium issue. Kidney stone disease is so much of a calcium problem.

Again, everyone wants to talk about oxalate, but the Kidney Stone Diet, most of it is based upon making sure you're not losing too much calcium, i.e., the sugar and the salt, and you're getting enough calcium for your skeleton and for, for stone disease, as well, because that's how we get rid of oxalate.

So, calcium: for men, we want up to 1,000 mg a day.

For women who still get their period, 1,000 mg a day.

Women who do not get their period anymore, up to 1,200 mg a day. You will note I am saying, "up to." Patients will say, "She said 1,200. I'm getting 4,000 because more is better." People, as most of you have learned because now you have kidney stones, more is not better in life, not in this area, not with diet.

So, you're not going to be able to absorb all of that. Calcium is a trickier thing to absorb, so you want to get your goals met, up to, you don't have to go over, okay? Please don't, get up to.

I've never worked with an adult in 21 years that they have said, "Jill, shut up about calcium. I get plenty." No adult has ever said that to me. Most people give up dairy long ago, or they don't like milk, or they don't want lactose, they're lactose intolerant, casein intolerant, many things, ethically, they're opposed to drinking any, cow milk.

There's plenty of alternative milks. Go to kidneystonediet.com, and you'll see an article in my blog on alternative milks that you can have that have calcium.

And we have some earlier episodes, too, with the podcast talking about calcium and other options that you could have dairy and non-dairy solutions.

Yeah. Yeah, so you need that. We do not want you to get it by supplements in pill form because there's been many studies done, many, and they can lead to kidney stones.

So, please don't get it through pills unless your doctor has told you otherwise because of maybe osteoporosis. I want you guys to recognize that some doctors may say, "Get it through pills," because these doctors assume you're not get You're not going to drink milk or, blah, blah, blah, so you could tell say to the doctor, "Oh, Doctor, I heard pills in supplement form can lead to kidney stones.

I'm willing to get mine by food. Is that okay?" And they'll say, "Yes." If you have malabsorption issues, if you've had a gastric bypass or a bariatric surgery, you listen to your doctor. Most certainly you're on calcium pills, okay?

If a doctor has told you because you have another medical condition, then do as your doctor says. If you don't have another medical condition that's warranting supplements by pill form, ask your doctor, "Is this still cool? Because you've heard that kidney stones can be caused by pill supplements," okay?

Anything else there, Jeff? You know, it's it's TikTok time for in the E. Go ahead, go ahead, talk, and I'll get this food.

Oh, yeah, but just along those lines, it comes down to likely the mechanism being that supplements aren't delivered with the actual foodstuff that would be wrapping around that supplement, typically. So, it is just sort of like the salt bomb or sugar bomb that we're getting from other foods, we're getting then a calcium bomb from the supplements, or whatever supplement it is, but it's not necessarily It doesn't have maybe the micronutrients and things that would go with it from the food to help you process it like typically.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we my take, unless a doctor has ordered you to take supplements, or a blood test has told you to take supplements because you are less than what is needed for a normal value, I'm not a big supplement person, I'm really not, you know? Take them if you need them, of course, or if your doctor has asked you, but specifically for calcium supplements, ask what I just said and see if they're still right for you after you say that to the doctor.

Say you're willing to get it from food. On my website at kidneystonediet.com, under the blog, there's great, again, there's the alternative milks, there's also vegan and vegetarian sources for calcium, there's another article for you guys that, do not want any animal products in calcium, so there's plenty of information there, okay?

Oh yeah, so now I think what do we have left? Is it the big one?

Oxalate!

Yeah, I think do we have everything? We have, fluids, salt, sugar, and calcium, so, yeah.

Oh, and protein! We need protein!

Oh, yeah,.

Okay, so protein is next, and I'm going to I'm going to make this shorter. The reason we don't want you guys to have think Atkins or keto, first of all, keto's a high-fat diet, but everyone eats way too much protein on it: meat protein, meat protein. I'm not talking about beans or anything else.

Too much meat protein can also increase urine calcium, can also lead to uric acid stones. So, we want to, give you the goal of 0.8 to 1.

2 kg, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, we have a calculator.

Yeah, you have to go to my blog for that one, or just Google, "How to calculate your meat protein needs, and Jill." You'll get how much you should have. The article is short, it takes you step-by-step, so you'll get it. And then, oxalate.

Yeah, and with the protein real quick, we have a calculator on the site. So, in that article, you just put in your weight, and it calculates it for you, so you don't have to worry about the somewhat complex sounding math, because really, like when I saw that the first time, I was like, "Oh, okay. Let me think back to like high school.

How do I do all this?"

I know. That's why I give the example using my weight, so they can just take my weight out and plug their weight, okay?

Definitely.

It's so much easier that way. I know, people hate numbers. I myself hate them, so that's why I did that article and just, "How to calculate your meat protein needs, and Jill." Now, remember, too, people, I'm talking about meat protein.

So, I'm talking about chicken. People will say, "I don't eat no red meat." Chickens, that's meat.

Pigs, that's meat. So, all meat plus seafood can increase your uric acid, so we don't we want you to be in a certain goal, a certain limit there. And so, but that doesn't mean that your total protein So, you know, you can have other protein sources, that's just if you're getting protein by meat, don't get all of your protein needs satisfied by meat.

Does that make sense, Jeff?

Absolutely. And I was just double checking, and it's kidneystonediet.com/protein, so easy link. You can just type that in, and you'll go right to the calculator and get all the all the details that we were just talking about right now.

That's good. All right, last, but not least, is oxalate.

Why everyone's here.

Everyone wants to talk about oxalate, but really, everybody that I work with, I mean, thousands and thousands of people, people,

If you once you start taking away those handful of almonds every day, once you stop eating spinach salads and juicing spinach and spinach smoothies and raspberries in any amount you want, and beets, and just eating these high-oxalate foods in enormous amounts, once you stop doing that, and get your daily calcium needs met,

Almost all of you won't have an oxalate problem anymore unless, again, you have malabsorption issues, okay, bariatric, IBS, Crohn's, colitis, all of these things, my rectal cancer, I can have malabsorption issues. So, there's a lot of different things that will cause it. But

Most people do not have that problem. So, in my experience in two decades, what's going on is people are eating hundreds of milligrams in of oxalate vis-a-vis almonds all day long and getting no calcium, spinach all the time. So, once we take away, again, under the free resources at kidneystonediet.com, there is one piece of paper that says "A List of Foods to Avoid." That's it.

It's very short and sweet, all right? So, oxalate,

You get 100 mg a day unless a doctor has told you otherwise.

I give you a debit card right now along with that bank account of 100 mg of oxalate. You have the Harvard list that you can find at kidneystonediet.com. If it's not on the list, if you're like, "Well, Jill, I'm eating something, it ain't on the list, what do I do?" You have that food once or twice

A week,

In normal portion sizes, get your calcium needs met that day. Why are you saying have it twice a week if we don't know? Because you might have leftovers.

I'm practical. Don't throw no food away, okay? I have never, that has never kicked me in the tush, ever.

Do that, and you'll be fine. Again, it's about portion size. So, another thing with the Kidney Stone Diet, we got to eat a variety of foods, this is my take, this is one more step I put in there.

We've got to eat a variety of foods, people, not the same oatmeal every day.

Not the same oatmeal every day for 25 years, please. Vary it up a little.

A nice varying amount of foods in normal portion sizes, you can lower your weight, you can stop making stones, everything gets a little better when we start eating appropriately, eating responsibly.

Yeah, and talking

That's the Kidney Stone Diet.

Yeah, speaking to that diversity, too, that's why we started the meal plans. It's inspiration for people to see really how diverse a week of eating should be and can be, along with the recipes and all of the, like, macronutrients and everything broken down for you for those recipes. And, yeah, it's just a turn-key solution.

People have been wanting recipes from you for so long, but this can really show now people can see, they have the inspiration to see, "Okay, I don't need that oatmeal every day for 25 years. I can do this. I can change it up."

That's why I've loved doing this so much, and the other thing is a lot of people are like, "I just can't add all these things." I've calculated, in the subscription meal plan,

I've calculated every little bit of everything. So, the oxalates in the recipe, you'll know how much oxalate's in it, it comes with education with each recipe, you'll know the added sugar, the salt. I don't think I've ever gone over added sugar, maybe 2 g in any of those recipes, and there's, I don't know,

Oh, there's a lot, and so many more coming, because I know I need to check with Dave, but I know there's still a backlog just of so many we're adding to the system constantly.

Yeah.

So, yeah, anyone who's interested, like, definitely head to kidneystonediet.com/kidneystonediet.com, and you can find meal plans there, you can find the course, which dives into everything we talked about today, everything Jill talked about today, but even deeper, along with the group calls, and that's sort of the core of the Kidney Stone Diet course is that direct connection with Jill and the rest of the Kidney Stone Diet community where you can share your trials and tribulations, really, and sort of that have that shared experience with everyone, and Jill can help you help you along your journey.

Yeah, we love the group, I love it, obviously. It's a great support group. We laugh,

We have a good time in that group, but we also get serious, and we've shed some tears, too. It's a it's a beautiful group, and that's where I help patients, and they'll say, "Well, this is what I'm working on," and then I it gets specialized for each person, because everyone comes with different needs. You can't throw a diet at somebody and expect everyone to do it the same way or, nor should they, because everyone's so incredibly different.

Somebody has diabetes, the next person is allergic to a million things, or somebody's on the autoimmune diet protocol, there's a million different things. So, you've got to talk to each person and find out what they're struggling with, so that helps them be compliant. And, you know, without that, our healthcare system is not very well set up for this, is it?

I mean, you know,

So I would have been, you know, I don't have to do those group calls. Some You could just send people off their merry way with just the videos, but there's no way I would feel ethical about that. You have to help people understand it, you have to help people implement it, and also, there has to be a You have to motivate people.

You have to It's why I'm a coach. I mean, I That's the best part of my job.

Yeah, for sure.

Right? I'm done. You know this is a long video.

Yeah, just how the medical system isn't geared for it, it's just the time. Like, you're able to give the time because this is you've you've built it into your system, your routine, how this all works. You also do private consulting, but that is it's a one-on-one, it's a it's pricier, to be honest, because it's you there's only so much time in your day, but the group calls are an amazing way that you're able to connect with a bunch of people and have that shared experience.

But, yeah, no matter what you need, if you want completely self-directed, just to follow the podcast, the blog, the course, you can join the meal plans, everything can be found at kidneystonediet.com. So, yeah, I definitely recommend checking it out, and you never have to pay for anything. We're always doing as much as we can for free to get as much information out there.

And, yeah, this is this is our longest episode to date. We're just about 40 minutes, but there's a lot to cover, a lot of ground to cover. So, for everyone listening, thank you so much for, sticking around with us.

And if you have specific questions that you want Jill to answer on a future episode, the phone number is 773-789-8763, and we will definitely get that get your voice on a future show. So, yeah, I think this was great, I think it's a good spot to wrap, too.

Yeah, everyone's like, "Holy braghole, don't let her ever go off-rogue, because she goes on forever." Well, I want people to understand that the Kidney Stone Diet is not just about oxalate. You just It's just not, people. So, that's it.

The end.

That's I love Lucy, Jeff, you're too young, but anyway.

Oh, I know I love Lucy. I didn't watch it a ton, but I know it.

Okay.

But, yeah, thanks again for listening, and we will see you all next week.

Bye, guys.