Did collagen protein give me kidney stones?!

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Jill, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Hello, Jeff!

Hi! So, we are back and you are at a new location.

Yes, I am. I am in a new location. I have to say, it's very dark in this new apartment.

I was living in a fishbowl, as you know, but I've told I tell everybody this: in order to get things you want in life, I needed to get my son closer to his new school, you have to give up. And you know what? I always find this.

I had a somebody who told me this. They're like, "You know what, Jill? Shut up about that stupid view,

Because wherever you go, you always make the best out of it." And you know what? They were right. I hate to say it, but they were.

And so, I love my new neighborhood. It's dark, but whatever. I call it now cozy.

So, there's always a way to get around things that don't really make you happy, but in order to find happiness, I find, or contentment, at least, you've got to roll with the punches. So, I'm rolling with them. I'm rolling with them.

The apartment itself is really pretty, and the neighborhood is freaking fantastic! So, the reason I could live where I lived,

In that beautiful view, is because the neighborhood wasn't the best. So, now I've upped my neighborhood, so I think that's best for my son and myself. So, there you go.

Yeah, and do you feel like settled in now?

I do. It's been a month, so I feel very settled. I feel like I've grown up here.

You know, I got my stuff placed right away, and yeah, I feel good. Luke loves it. Luke walks more than ever now, 'cause he really loves the neighborhood, too.

Yeah! And we have a porch, which is really nice. It's a three-flat with a big porch, and so he's always on the porch.

So, yeah, we're really happy!

Yeah, very cool.

Yeah, I'm very happy.

Yeah. Sweet. So, should we dive right into this week's question?

Yes! Let's go, baby! Let's do it!

Let's see here.

Hi, my name is Cindy and I live in California. I have a question about collagen. You see so much of it advertised and there are there is protein in it, but also a number of vitamins.

And I'm wondering about that in relationship to kidney stones. I have calcium oxalate stones that I produce.

If you could I'm not sure if you've already answered this question, but I follow the podcast and I don't remember hearing you talk about it. Thank you and have a great day!

Oh, Cindy. I love Cindy's question.

Yeah, it's good, because we haven't talked about collagen specifically.

Just like a good answer, then, Jeff. Wait, what?

Yeah, we haven't talked about collagen specifically, and it is sort of that like it's been around forever, but it is sort of in that superfood world now where people are really all about it.

Oh, Jeff. Jeff, it so is. You know, I went So, when I moved in this new apartment, of course, it's it's it's September here, so I had to run over to Marshalls, because it's right across the street, which is not good for me.

And I had to get my son a couple things for his bedroom. And while I was there,

They had they had some things in the food aisle. I'm like, "Ooh, look at that." And I like going into their food aisle because it's all the reduced stuff. All the reduced superfoods that have been real popular and everyone's sick of buying.

Collagen's one of them, okay? So, collagen, yes, you're right, has been the latest, greatest. People are growing Goldilocks hair and their nails.

They don't even know what to do with their nails. Everything is growing back because they're taking their collagen supplements. I'm not saying that's not true.

Not saying that at all. But, here's the deal. With collagen and kidney stones, collagen can convert over to oxalate, so it can be an issue for kidney stone formers.

Now,

Typically, when you're taking those products, any of these super-duper kind of latest, greatest diet fad kind of things, we tend to do it all the time.

So, that's usually the problem. Next month, it may be kiwis are the greatest thing you've ever had in your whole freaking life, and in order to grow your eyelashes and everything else you want to do, eat a kiwi. So, people buy 10 kiwis a day 'cause more is better, right?

And so,

Not necessarily. More is not better, and any kidney stone former will know this. Just because you found a healthy product, or the latest, greatest superfood, does not mean you should be eating it all day long, because some of those things could be higher in oxalate.

Collagen, there have been studies that has shown that too much of it can convert over to oxalate in your body. So, there's different amounts. For me,

For me, I would not be taking collagen if I were a calcium oxalate stone former, if I were any kind of stone former. I just wouldn't take it. Now, I don't have stones, but my family, some of my family members do.

I don't want to increase my odds any old way. So, I'm not a fan of it. You've got to decide.

W- What I tell patients when we want to know exactly how much we can and cannot have of a product, I always say this, "Look, on your urine collection, when you're doing one, which you all should be doing so you can see why you're forming stones

And then get on a treatment plan and then do a follow-up test to make sure that the treatment plan is working," I tell patients, "Look, if you're iffy about something you're doing, do that on the day of the urine collection and see if you have higher oxalate. See how it affects your urine." Could be a little bit different for everybody, but overall, studies show that collagen can produce extra oxalate in your body.

So, if it was my patient I was counseling or one of my students in the Kidney Stone Prevention Course, I would say, "I don't recommend it for you as a stone former." That's what I would say.

And I know we've talked about other protein powders, as well. Do protein powders in general seem to convert to oxalate, or is it specifically something about collagen?

It's specifically collagen itself, which is a form of protein. Now, protein powders, and we do have a video on this, too, so look in the video list. Protein powders, I It's not like protein powders convert into oxalate.

That's not it. Wh- Why I don't like protein powders, and I use them sometimes. "Oh, Jill, you're a hypocrite." No, I'm not.

Hold on. Hold on. Let me tell you what I'm talking about.

People take protein shakes in lieu of chewing, in lieu of a meal. They get sick of that and one day they just go, "Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra," eat a lot, because you can't suck down your food. You've got to chew it.

So, I'm not a fan for it overall, because people are substituting their whole meals with one shake. So, that's what I'm not a fan of. Also,

So, hold on. I just want to stop there. So, that's what I'm not a fan of.

Many people will say, "Jill says no protein shakes." Jill never said no protein shakes. Jill said she doesn't like you eating a shake in the lieu of food,

Because typically, long-term, the chips are going to fall somewhere not cute, okay? Now, some people will say, "I could have a protein shake and it don't bother me for the rest of my life instead of a meal." Okay, that's fine. You're one out of a million.

Most people, most people will miss chewing their food, and those protein shakes are setting them up for failure going on long-term. Does that make sense, Jeff?

It definitely does. Like I find that in me, it's not even like a it's not a conscious missing of chewing, but it's almost like a craving. Like I'm craving something, I don't understand what, and maybe I'll grab chips or something crunchy, because it is like my body just knows something's a little off, I don't understand.

My body doesn't understand what's happened, I guess.

I think that's such a great way to put it. I have found, because I am very mindful, although this my whole career, but I am very mindful about why I'm eating, what I'm eating, all of that. I'm very mindful about it.

This ain't no a facade, so it's how I live. And so, it's very interesting, when I do have sometimes I'm trying to make up calories, so I want the extra few hundred calories that I'm using an egg white protein shake for. So, I'll use egg white protein shake.

And so, sometimes I notice after I have that, I'm like, "Dang, if I don't want a crunch." And so, I am a crunchy girl, but I'll want a crunch. I don't know what it is. It's kind of like what you're saying, Jeff.

It's just there's something. I don't know what it is. I wish someone can explain that to me, but, you know, so yes.

And so, I will find some days on that day I have the protein shake, I will be overeating a little because I had the shake and now I'm like needing a crunch. And overall, I am a crunchy kind of girl, so that's not crazy to think, but there's something particular about sucking down that shake and then wanting something crunchy.

I don't understand what it is, but same, same, same, same.

Yeah. What is your go-to crunch? 'Cause I know Cheez-Its do not live in the house.

But, what's something that

No, cannot live in the house. Okay. So, I have a couple go-to crunches.

One is Popcorners. Oh, my god, they're on my Kidney Stone Snack on my blog I have a list of snacks that are safe for kidney stone formers and you can go to kidneystonediet.com, the blog, and I think we called it Kidney Stone Diet Safe Snacks, and, honey, I will tell you right now,

It is those dang Popcorners! And so, here's how I do it. Here's how I do it.

No one asked, Jill, I'm going to tell you anyway, 'cause I get so excited. So, people are always like, "Pff, you probably eat like a nun 24/7." No, I don’t! I don't believe in that because somewhere along the line, you're going to have a craving and you're going to need a little sumpin'-sumpin', right?

So, for me, it's my Popcorners.

And so, what I do is I allow myself to buy one bag a month, one bag a month. That's my rule. And even though I'm kind of a rebellious girl, kind of I like spontaneity, I'm also I can I can be almost nana-like rigid, that's how I can do this diet and work out all the time, and a rule-follower.

So, I set rules for myself, and I know a lot of my patients and students like this, too.

The rule is this: you want those Popcorners, girl? Because you know you've got to be careful because you love them, you get to buy one bag a month. If you want to eat half a bag one day and finish off half a bag the next day, go ahead!

But you don't get another bag for another month. So, you might want to spread that out. And I'll tell you what, folks, most of the time, I eat half a bag and I eat half a bag the next time, but I'm very good about then that's it.

The other thing I do, as boring as it seems, sometimes when I want a crunch, I'll go for an apple. You're getting a sweet tooth fix, you're also getting a nice fiber fix, so I'll go for an apple. Sometimes I'll do rice cakes, and even though they're they'll be brown rice in there, that's high in oxalate, Jill.

It's one freaking cake, people. And guess what I do? I put yogurt on it, Greek yogurt.

So, I also am getting calcium with that because I'm mindful of the excess oxalate I may get in a rice cake, so then I'll put my Greek yogurt on there. Typically, those are my two crunchy snacks. Oh, oh, oh!

And one more, one more I love so very much! The Harvest Snaps Peas.

You can get them at Whole Foods or a lot of places, I think Target, too. So, when they go on sale, I'll buy a lot of those. Same rule, one bag a month.

So, that means I may stock up 'cause they're on sale. I'm frugal. I buy my things on sale.

Are those the freeze-dried ones?

And people who are not watching, they're on Spotify or iTunes, I'm shaking my head, "Yes, sir! Yes, sir! Yes, sir!" That's exactly right!

And I love those! Again, because they're crunchy, they're lower in sodium, they're so for vegans and vegetarians, vegans especially, just they're just snap peas in there, man. And they put a little baby salt, so I think it's like 110 calories per serving and 70 mg of sodium, so it's a great to get your crunch on kind of snack.

So, I'm a big advocate of both of those things, and I am also very good at adhering to that rule. So, it's once a month I get a bag, even if I buy a ton of them. So, if it was Cheez-Its, there's no way I could follow that rule.

But these things, although I love them, I get extra happy because I can also control myself with them. So, that's what makes me so happy, I'm able to. So, those are my two snack choices for kidney stone safe stuff.

And also, of course, popcorn. If you guys want popcorn, I don't use a lot of extra stuff on my popcorn, but you can get a high volume. The other thing I'm paying attention to because I do mind my calories, I'm choosing lower calorie-dense snacks, not high calorie snacks, because at the end of the day, people, I don't want to eat just like I don't want If you can't see me, I'm like a little baby, a few things.

I want to eat a snack! If I'm going to have a snack, I want like a couple cupfuls of something! I'm not opening a bag for it to go stale with three pieces of something.

That's not me. So, I'm always going to choose lower calorie-dense foods so I can eat a little bit more. They're always low in salt, and they're always no oxalate, zero-oxalate stuff, so and, of course, no added sugar.

So, there you go. Those are my We're fitting that in with the collagen, Cindy.

Yeah, for sure. I think that was really good. And, yeah, thank you again, Cindy, for your question.

And

Great question.

For anyone else out there who has a question for Jill, the number is 773-789-8763, and we will feature your question on a future episode of the show. So, yeah, thanks again for listening to the show, and if you want more, head on over to kidneystonediet.com, where you can find the safe oxalate list. You can find the Kidney Stone Prevention Course, you can find tons of free content and some premium stuff, like the course, the meal plans, the various things that we do to just sort of help you along your journey to reducing your risk for kidney stones.

So much stuff!

Yeah, there's so much out there. So much free stuff, and then some premium things that help us keep the lights on. So, yeah, if you want to support the show or dive a little deeper, head on over there.

And yeah, thanks again for listening and we will see you next time.

Bye, Jeff! Thank you, Cindy!

Bye.