Think you know oxalate? Think again.


Jeff Sarris
Jeff Sarris
Host
Jill Harris
Jill Harris
Host

In this episode, Jill Harris delves into the complexities of oxalate and its role in kidney stone formation. She discusses common misconceptions, the importance of using reliable resources like the Harvard Oxalate Food List, and practical dietary advice for managing oxalate intake. Jill emphasizes the significance of portion control and the need for a holistic approach to kidney stone prevention, including calcium intake and overall dietary balance.

Takeaways

  • Oxalate is often misunderstood and surrounded by misconceptions.
  • The Harvard Oxalate Food List is a reliable resource for managing oxalate intake.
  • Calcium plays a crucial role in reducing oxalate absorption.
  • Portion control is essential; it’s about balance, not deprivation.
  • Lifestyle changes for kidney stone prevention take time and commitment.
  • Many patients over-restrict their diets unnecessarily due to fear of oxalate.
  • Different sources may report varying oxalate levels due to growing conditions.
  • Managing expectations is key; dietary changes require patience.
  • A holistic approach to diet includes monitoring sodium, sugar, and protein intake.
  • Regular consultations can help tailor dietary advice to individual needs.


00:00 Understanding Oxalate: The Basics
02:47 Navigating Oxalate Lists and Resources
05:40 The Impact of Oxalate on Health
08:38 Practical Dietary Advice for Kidney Stone Prevention
12:00 Holistic Approach to Kidney Stone Management

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WHO IS JILL HARRIS? _
For over 25 years, Jill Harris has been a kidney stone prevention nurse helping patients reduce their kidney stone risk. Drawing from her work with world-renowned University of Chicago nephrologist, Dr. Fred Coe, and the thousands of patients she’s worked with directly, she created the Kidney Stone Diet®. With a simple, self-guided online video course, meal plans, ebooks, and group coaching, Kidney Stone Diet® is Jill’s effort to help as many patients as possible stop making kidney stones for good.

Transcript

Misconceptions About Oxalate in Kidney Stones

00:00:00 Jeff Sarris

You may think you know oxalate. Well, think again. Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life.

I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

Searchable Harvard Oxalate Food List Tool

00:00:20 Jill Harris

And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse.

00:00:22 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, today it's everyone's favorite, favorite topic,

00:00:26 Jill Harris

Oxalate! They love oxalate all the time. I know.

But, you know, there's just so many, there's just so many misconceptions about oxalate. And I think out of all the things, it just confuses everybody the most. It just does.

Everybody thinks that like there's one definitive list or, you know, everybody thinks that, let me word it better. Everyone thinks that oxalate is so confusing and it is because there are so many different lists out there, and so you don't know who to follow. And so if you know me for five seconds, you know I'm going to say, "Use the Harvard list." We have the- the Harvard oxalate food list on our website.

Jeff has made it a searchable function on our website. So, if you go to kidneystonediet.com, you will find the searchable oxalate food list where you just type in a food and the amount of oxalate in each serving is going to pop up. It's very easy.

We also at kidneystonediet.com, the help desk, we have a way to put that on your phone, so you can just find out how much oxalate from the Harvard list and right on your phone. And I have that on my phone and I use it all the time. So, here's the deal.

I'm going to tell you to use the Harvard food list because I've been using it for nearly 30 years. So, I know it works well. I trust the researchers, and my patients always lower their urine oxalate.

They just always do. I'll see a patient and their oxalate level was 120 and now it's 22 on their follow-up test because they listened to the advice I gave them. It's not just about any one list, really.

Now, I've only used the Harvard list, and I see the results I'm getting from follow-up urine collections with my patients, so I know it works. But it's not just the list that they're following, they're following all the advice that I give on my private consults. And so, some of that advice, there's so much depending on—I lost my thing.

Hold on. Either that or I'm going to rock, so I need my fidget toy. So, it's either—what was I saying?

Jeff's like, "I don't know. I fell asleep after 5 seconds of hearing your damn voice." See, this is why I need—

00:02:51 Jeff Sarris

I was—I was just thinking about your fidget toy.

00:02:54 Jill Harris

Oh, my god! ADHD is something. Okay, so, I mean, I just can't ever get interrupted because it's all over.

Okay, so the oxalate food list, who knows what I was talking about.

00:03:04 Jeff Sarris

Oh, yeah, about all the numbers and—

High-Oxalate Foods to Eliminate and Limit

00:03:05 Jill Harris

Oh, my advice! The other advice. Okay, so the other advice I give, get the Harvard food list, get it, download it, okay, from my website, kidneystonediet.com.

But the other advice, so it's like have all food, except just a handful of foods. Get rid of spinach, get rid of chia seeds, because you all eat it every damn day in your oatmeal. Stop that.

Almonds, almond products, almond milk, almond flour, all my Paleo friends. So, stop overeating rhubarb, that's something really high, but, honestly, and I have "get rid of these foods" on my on my kidneystonediet.com, there's a list of foods to watch out for. But all of you come and you want to get rid of all the foods.

You don't have to do that! So, I have built a career saying there's plenty to eat. You come to me thinking you've just got notebook paper and rocks, but you don't.

You can eat, you can eat sweet potatoes, just stop eating five of them a day, my bodybuilder friends. Stop overeating higher oxalate foods in any portion you want because they're healthy, quote, unquote, air quotes, for you who are listening on Spotify, and get your calcium needs met every day because calcium helps us get rid of excess oxalate in our body.

So, there's that. But the question remains, why are the lists so different? Well, first of all, number one, there's great research out there and maybe some that aren't so great.

So, oxalate numbers may vary. Where a plant is grown, from one country to another country, the soil makeup it was grown in, all of these things vary. We are never going to have in black and white, solid, 100% sure oxalate levels for one food.

We're just not going to have that. But we as human beings want concise measurements of everything. Because we don't ever want to go through that pain again, it makes perfect sense.

And so when you go to the urologist with a new stone or you do a urine collection and your oxalate's high, you're like, "What the hell is oxalate?" You've never heard of it, and it's the only thing you focus on because your stone was calcium oxalate. And so you're like, "Oh, my god, what is oxalate?" And then when you go on the internet, oh my goodness, there's so much information and it typically conflicts with each other, so it's very confusing for you.

And you come to me so frustrated. Also, so many of you come to me, I'm helping you gain weight back because you've taken so many foods away that you don't have to take away anymore. I promise.

Also, there's all kinds of people on the internet that will be screaming about oxalate toxicity. And so that really makes you scared, too. I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

I will tell you as a kidney stone former, I've never seen that in almost 30 years. So, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't have experience with it. But once you start research- researching oxalate, you really start getting scared.

So, I get patients that come to me very underweight. I have had patients come to me with newly diagnosed eating disorders because they are, and they're working with a therapist, because they're so petrified of new stones and oxalate that they are eating like rice and oatmeal, because both of those things have no oxalate, all day long.

People who are diabetics come to me and now their A1C has increased because they started bringing food in like rice that has zero oxalate, but now they're eating it all the time, so their A1C over the next 3 months goes high. There are so many things that I see that don't have to be, that don't have to happen. I promise you, if you listen to the advice I'm giving you as a calcium oxalate stone former, you stick to 100 mg of oxalate a day.

If you're a bariatric patient or somebody who has malabsorption is- issues, your doctor may tell you 50 mg of oxalate a day. If you don't have any of those things and your doctor is telling you to go 50 mg a day, some doctors arbitrarily tell you a number and then when you meet with me, I'll say, "Do you have malabsorption issues?

Do you have this? Do you have that?" "No. No, the only thing I have is kidney stones." That 50 mg per day is much too low.

Some doctors just arbitrarily pull out a number. You can easily go to 100 mg of oxalate a day. And so, get your calcium needs met.

Stay under 100 mg a day, which is super easy to do once you take away almond products all day long, rhubarb, and spinach, because spinach has hundreds of oxalate in just one cup. So, once you take away the highest culprits, you can eat all foods, even higher oxalate foods, just watch your portion size. And that is where the mantra, "Portion, not perfection" comes in.

So, I have kidney stones in my family and I still eat sweet potatoes, but I'm having half a sweet potato, not a huge sweet potato, and I'm fine. And I pair that because it is higher, I think it's 28 mg for half a cup of sweet potato, I will pair it with my lactose-free milk. So, I'm not worried about it.

And so far, knock on wood, because I follow the diet I'm asking you guys to do, I haven't made any new stones. And I have a lot of malabsorption issues, so one day if I get them, I'm not going to be surprised because of all my bowel issues from my surgeries from cancer. But I do everything I ask you to do.

I eat a low-salt diet, I eat a very low added sugar diet, I don't eat high oxalate foods, I stay under the 100 mg, I get my- of oxalate, I get my calcium needs met every day because I don't want bone loss. I get my fluids. That one's hard.

I mean, there are days that, you know, I don't make it, but it's never 2 days in a row I don't make my fluid goals. And so, again, too, I do all the things. I don't overeat meat, I do eat meat because I bodybuild and I like to get—it's easy to get protein from meat that way, you don't have to eat meat, but if you do eat meat, get it under control how much you're eating.

I have a calculator on how much kidney stone formers should be eating as far as meat protein goals on my website, kidneystonediet.com. And so, I also know that getting, doing these goals is hard when you first start, but once you start living this lifestyle, anybody that's doing it 6 months to a year, that will tell you, " it's just the best thing they've ever done." One of the reasons I have the accountability group is I want you to know this.

I'm going to insert this here, I don't talk about this enough, start managing your expectations. Lifestyle changes take 6 months to a year. Everybody in the diet industry will tell you it's quick and easy, but it's not, as you all know.

You lose weight and you'll gain it right back, cuz it's not quick and easy. Diet, losing weight, maintaining dietary changes, 6 months to a year till you really get it under your belt, and that is when the magic happens. And that's why I have a really cheap accountability group, or you can get it in a all-access pass at kidneystonediet.com.

It comes with that pass. But the oxalate portion of this is so easy once you get the right information. Download your Harvard Oxalate Food List.

Use that as your source. Even Har- Harvard, they restudied some foods and they're different than when they studied them before because they studied those food foods in the '80s. It could be different climate changes, could be the soil conditions.

If you pluck a raspberry in one soil and 2 years later pluck it again in another soil, it could be different, it's just different, folks. There's no, there's no hard fact a raspberry will never be however many milligrams of oxalate always, okay? It may change.

This is why if you listen to the advice, you eat foods within a portion size, don't overeat foods, even healthy ones as so many of you have realized, spinach every day, almonds every day, getting no calcium, that's what led to your kidney stone in so many cases. So, when we eat foods, even healthy foods, within portion size, get our calcium needs met every day, follow the other aspects of the Kidney Stone Diet.

Some people will say, "Jill, I lowered my oxalate. I'm still making stones." Because you're just focused on oxalate. It's the easiest part of the diet.

Now you've got You've also got to focus on sodium and added sugar and meat protein, fluids, and getting calcium needs met every day. Those are the real goals. Lowering your oxalate, boom, like that, you'll do it.

It's not going to be a problem, but because when you go on the internet, everyone's talking about oxalate with kidney stones, that's the only thing you focus on, and you're always focused on all the foods you can't eat. Get the right list, the Harvard Oxalate Food List, listen to the advice I'm giving you, and that oxalate on your urine will plummet, I promise, and schedule a urine collection consult with me.

I'll explain everything to you.

Kidney Stone Diet Website and Coaching

00:12:50 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, and just to reiterate, oxalate is just one part of the Kidney Stone Diet, so go to kidneystonediet.com, scroll down to the Kidney Stone Diet goals, and you can find all the details for oxalate, sodium, sugar, meat, meat protein, everything right there on the homepage, absolutely free. There's no paywall or email or anything you have to give.

You can find everything at kidneystonediet.com. And if you want to dive deeper, we have the All-Access Pass, as Jill mentioned. You can get the group coaching calls with Jill and fellow kidney stone formers.

You can get the Kidney Stone Prevention Course. All-Access gives you meal plans, as well, so you just get absolutely everything kidney stone prevention for one flat price. So, I think with that, we'll wrap.

Head on over to kidneystonediet.com, thumbs up on this video if you liked it, and thanks again. We'll see you next week.

00:13:38 Jill Harris

Subscribe, folks! Thanks so much. Have a great week.

Herb!