The Kidney Stone TRUTH about Apple Cider Vinegar

What's the truth about apple cider vinegar and kidney stones? Let's talk about that. Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life.

I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse.

All righty, so apple cider vinegar, that is it's one of those key points, key questions people have. And speaking of questions, if you have a question that you want featured on the show, go to call.show/kidneystonediet or click the link in the description, and we will feature your voice. But let's dive right into apple cider vinegar.

You know, over the years, so especially once ACV got really popular, you know, several years ago, apple cider vinegar came into the scene, and everybody's using it for all kinds of things. It's trashy, y'all do what you need to do, you're grown, you know I always say that. But we're here, Jeff and I are here to debunk kidney stone myths.

And why do I care about that so much? "Jill, shut up about Chanca Piedra! Jill, shut up about apple cider vinegar!

Let me do what I want!" You can! Do what you want. But my job is to tell you what's scientifically not going to work.

And then people say, "Oh, of course, you know, science is wrong. She doesn't know. Chanca Piedra broke it up." It didn't break it up.

It doesn't break it up. Apple cider vinegar is not going to break up a stone. And you can say, "But it did!

Mine fell right out of me! Soon as I looked at the ACV bottle in the Jewel, it just popped out." It didn't, Clyde! It didn't pop out!

Usually when you're wanting to use one of these potions, you're already pacing the floor, you know a stone feels like it's moving, you're drinking copious amounts of fluids, plus the tea, plus apple cider vinegar. Was it those things that made the stone fall out? I mean, if that were the case, then we wouldn't have lithotripsies anymore!

And we wouldn't have ureteroscopies anymore. We would never need a kidney stone surgery. People would just suck down these products and sip the tea.

So, it's not about science. People will say, "I want to do a natural." She's a nurse, of course she's going to say… What I'm talking about, Jeff and I are doing nothing but talking about the most natural thing in the world: diet change.

Okay? So, I'm all for you guys that want natural. Me, too!

I've been sick in my life. I don't want to have to do anything that's going to make anything worse, pills and side effects from them and all that. I always want to start with diet first, diet and fluids.

So, apple cider vinegar. A lot of people on the internet, snake oil people, will say, "Breaks up stones. Breaks up stones." It doesn't.

And there is science behind that says it doesn't break up stones. Now, there is a study, I believe it was from 2019, and it said it didn't say apple cider vinegar. This was a study in China.

And the study said that mature What was studied was mature vinegar. So, could be kind of like apple cider vinegar, right? So, that study, and this is but this is where people get this notion from that it's breaking up a stone or it's a miracle thing for kidney stone.

And you've got to be careful when you're reading studies, because the study titles, a lot of them, are clickbait. So, it will say something, but when you read the study, which so many people don't, it's not what It didn't show that what the title says, so there's that, too. So, you've got to know how to read a study.

But this study was talking about that mature vinegar, that's what they use in China, does not break up stones. It may increase the citrate level a little. That can help break up stones, uric acid stones only.

Also, please know, it said only a little bit it showed increased citrate, lower than lemons, lower than coconut water, so it wasn't something that like for you guys that are on potassium citrate, "Holy guacamole, I'm going to take apple cider vinegar, get rid of this damn pill." It raised it a bip, which is my word for just a tiny little bit, okay?

So, that's not something to use apple cider vinegar for. Another thing: Many of my patients have told me in the past, "Jill, I tried for a month. My esophagus got all inflamed.

I had issues swallowing. It did not go well. And also I still had to have the lithotripsy," okay?

So, but it can cause it can cause problems with your esophagus. So, that's a problem. So, the other thing I don't like about these alternative treatments, if they worked, people, I'd be the first I'm in prevention.

I don't want you to get the stone. You're talking to me about things that happen once you get the stone. My whole deal is we don't want you to get stones here at Kidney Stone Diet.

So, if this stuff worked, I'd be We'd have 300 videos on, "Take apple cider vinegar. Don't have a surgery ever again. Drink Chanca Piedra tea.

Please, never have a…" I would be on all the time. We don't make money or don't make money whether we're telling you about this or not. We're just telling you what the science says.

One of the bigger issues, what I have seen in my practice, is that when people are waiting for a stone to pass using Chanca Piedra or apple cider vinegar, I've had I would say probably in the last 10 years, 15 to 20 people go through sepsis, where they almost died. That's an infection in your blood, because they were waiting for these treatments to work, and they ignored signs of sepsis like fever, chills, and all the trouble urinating, where your urine's backing up, because you have high hopes.

And believe me when I tell you, no one wants to go to an especially in the United States. I don't know how it is in other countries, but nobody wants to wait in an for hours and hours. And so I understand that people want something, you know, "This hopefully will work," and you bypass or overlook really serious symptoms of sepsis.

So, that's I, you know, you've got to understand that I'm hearing the worst of the worst every day. So, I always get upset that people are using these things because the internet is saying do it, and then they don't work, and you can really have terrible things happen to you. So I always remind people if you have fever, chills, vomiting, uncontrolled pain, a lot of blood in your urine, not being able to urinate, you must go to the and heed my warning on that one.

After 30 years of experience listening to people, please listen to that. That is Those are Those are emergency signs. You have a stone blocked and you're having issues, and I've had people lose kidneys because of that.

So, when you bring up apple cider vinegar and Chanca Piedra and, you know, eat grapes or drink celery juice, it just upsets me because of what I've seen every day. And if those things helped you, as a lot of you will say it did, I always push back, "There's other things you're doing." It's not Nobody's passing a stone because of celery juice.

It's fluid, and all that can help pass a stone when you're drinking lots of fluid. If a stone's going to pass, it's going to pass. But many stones will not pass because of the location they're in or the their the size they are, and they can't pass.

But y'all are waiting for that because you don't want to go to the. And again, God knows I don't blame you for that. And guess what?

Not everybody has insurance. Jeff is like, "Oh, jeez, don't talk about…" I'm just saying! So, it's a lot of money.

You can't just go to the. You're going to have You're going to have a bill. So, all of this stuff is scary.

I never want you to think I'm taking away things that might help you. That's not what I'm doing. I want you to never get a stone, so I want you to eat better, and there's nothing more natural than that.

I want you to get your fluids. Apple cider vinegar is not like Drano for your kidney. That's not happening.

It's not eroding kidney stones. It may erode your esophagus, but it's not eroding your kidney stones. Now, let me get back to that citrate.

We only know that China studied this quote-unquote "mature" vinegar. We don't know what the heck that is, but I bet it's similar enough to apple cider vinegar. And you may be thinking, "Yeah, Jill, but it raised citrate." And some of you may understand, and I just wrote an article, you can find it at kidneystonediet.com on citrate and how important it is in kidney stone prevention.

So, citrate is a little molecule in the body that will protect calcium in the urine, and it's a shield that protects calcium. And we want So, citrate is a molecule, our body makes it. We can also get more of it by eating more fruits and vegetables, which is one of the reasons I'm always screaming about that.

So, when your citrate is low, that means the calcium that's sitting in your kidney is unprotected. And when calcium's all naked in there by herself, oxalate and phosphate can bump into her and connect with her and form stones, eventually forming stones. So, if you have excess calcium in your kidney and not enough citrate to protect her from the other crystals that are also in your kidney, then that's a problem.

So, that mature vinegar, and perhaps, I do not know because it wasn't studied in this study, maybe apple cider vinegar can increase your citrate. But please, folks, you don't know you know need that unless you do a 24-hour urine collection. And also, since we don't have apple cider vinegar studies, please know that the citrate was less than lemon juice alone and coconut water alone, so it did not raise it significantly.

But I did want you to understand why we care about citrate. That's just a brief little explanation. It's a it's a little complicated, and the article goes over everything at kidneystonediet.com.

But apple cider vinegar, is it going to melt your stone away? Is it like Drano for your pipes? 100% no.

I'm not a fan of it. If you are using it for other things, that's your business, but it's not going to break up kidney stones. Again, winning no fans, telling you things you need to hear, but perhaps don't want to hear.

Love, Nurse Jill.

Yeah, and if you want if you want Jill in your inbox to keep you on track, to help you with these little nuggets…

They're like, "I don't know after this video, I don't know if I want that."

Yeah, little nuggets of inspiration and just more knowledge so you can prevent future stones, go to kidneystonediet.com and sign up for the free weekly email newsletter. And if you have a question, you can click the link in the description, call.show/kidneystonediet, and we'll feature you on a future episode. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.

Bye, everybody!