Spinach isn’t what you think it is

Today, let's talk about spinach because it actually isn't what you think it is. Let's get to it. Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life.

I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Spinach, man! There is— Yeah, it's especially people outside of our community, spinach is something that isn't talked about in the way that it needs to be.

And we want to try to try to get the word out and let people know really what are we talking about here with spinach? You know, it's so interesting because, of course, you know, I study nutrition, it's my hobby, it's my passion, it's all of it for all these years. And whenever somebody's starting a healthy diet, whenever you see social influencers, whenever you're at the doctor's office, whenever you're talking to a naturopath, whenever you're talking to a holistic doctor, the number one vegetable they're going to say to have is spinach, right?

So, whenever people are changing their diet, spinach smoothies. Number one, put a bunch of spinach, put as much spinach in that smoothie as you can, right? And by the way, put the base as almond milk.

This is so common. So, it's in the kidney stone community, people have learned quickly once they make a kidney stone, we can all agree in the kidney stone community that's always the first thing we take away from patients. Oh, my god, don't eat any spinach, because it's hundreds of milligrams of oxalate for just a cup, think like 700.

It vary, 600, 700, I've seen 800. But a cup of spinach steams down to the size of my eyeball, so most people are taking three, four cups of spinach in a in a smoothie. And this is what patients have told me for the last 26 years.

"Jill, the amount of spinach I was having, spinach salad, spinach smoothie, spinach ice cream, spinach milkshakes. I mean, you name it, they were having spinach," okay? So, along with not getting any calcium in their diet, their oxalate level soared through the roof, and that's why they made a kidney stone.

So, it is I have to say, it's like it's right up there with spinach with almonds, same thing. When people You go to the nutritionist or the dietitians for diabetes, eat almonds. So, Henrietta goes home and she eats almonds all day long.

What do I hear? What do I hear all day long in my practice? "Jill, every time I got a little, you know, a little snack, it was just a handful of almonds.

I can't tell you how many almonds I ate because I was told they're healthy." And they are health- healthy, folks. Spinach is healthy. Almonds are healthy.

But like anything in the world, sometimes too much may not be healthy, and for kidney stone formers, it definitely proves to be true. So, we've got to We take away spinach for kidney stone formers. It's just too high in oxalate, because you guys, you get 100 mg of oxalate a day and you can see one cup of spinach blows you times seven.

So, that's not going to work, it has to be taken away. And so—

And I was just going to say, what is that connection then for anyone who might be brand new between oxalate and stones?

Yes, too much oxalate in our body, oxalate and calcium, you want them to join in some places in the body, like in the GI tract, and then it leaves through the stool. But when they meet up in the kidney in the urine and then say you don't pee a lot, because you're dehydrated, so many people are running around not drinking enough water, when calcium and oxalate, these crystals get together in your urine in your kidney, they can make calcium oxalate stones, and up to 80% of kidney stones are of the calcium oxalate nature.

And so often, so often this is about diet. And I would say out of the phone calls I do each day, at least three people a day tell me, "Jill, I did this to myself," which also I hate to hear, because you all didn't know what you didn't know. And, you know, when we're told something's healthy, we just naturally assume that eating more of it will bring us more health.

So, it's not anything you did. You just didn't know. So, this is why I always say, all foods, even healthy foods, within moderation.

Okay, it's really important. We don't overdo broccoli. We don't overdo There's thousands of vegetables out there.

Eat all. Eat a big variety of them in normal portion sizes. And there's plenty of lower oxalate vegetables, so you don't have to worry about spinach.

And people are like, "Well, Jill, kale is low oxalate, but it doesn't taste the same as spinach." It just doesn't, folks. If you massage your kale, it will get less crunchy. You know what I mean?

It'll be easier to work with. Also baby kale is so much less What's the word I'm looking for, Jeff? You know how kale can be like It's not as fun as spinach.

Yeah, it's not tender, you know. It's, yeah.

Yeah, tender, right. Yeah, so if you massage your kale, that makes it more tender, or get baby kale, or arugula. There's a million different lettuces you can use in green leafy vegetables, right?

So, but the spinach is just something that people overeat. It's just too high oxalate. And people will say, "Well, this is crazy, Jill, because I was also using the spinach for calcium needs because it's really high in calcium." And remember, folks, wherever you see oxalate, calcium is close behind in the food because these things are growing in the soil, they're attracted to each other, and even though there is calcium in the spinach, there's so much oxalate in there, there's no way in God's green earth that calcium's going to, you know, absorb that calcium and you're not going to have a problem.

There's just not enough calcium in spinach, even though it's a nice source. But the oxalate supersedes any kind of calcium that's in that plant. So, it's really important.

And also, let's just acknowledge that it is a total bummer. It is a total bummer because people went through hell to change their diet. They got a rhythm to it all, and now they are pulling out their hair because they have a kidney stone, and they're like, "Oh, my god, forget all of this.

I might as well just go back to eating my Snickers bars. This is ridiculous." So, I have a lot of people who feel that way. And also, diabetics, they've been to their dietitian.

They were told to do certain things. The dietitians are dealing with the diabetes, so they're not thinking about kidney stones, right? And also, just because, you know, somebody told you to eat a food or, you know, like almonds, give that for an example, because it's very common that dietitians are told to use almond flour and almond milk and almonds not to raise blood sugar.

But the problem is with that, what we tell patients as healthcare people and what patients actually do is two totally different things. So, I'm not saying that the dietitians are saying have 20 handfuls of almonds, but what patients do with, "Almonds are okay for you, Trixie. Go have them." Well, if it's okay, I have a little bit, a little more is going to be better, especially if you are always worried about your blood sugar.

Almonds are not going to raise them. So, it is a free food, quote unquote, guys, for a diabetic because it's not going to raise their blood sugar. But also, remember, for people on a weight loss journey, you know, they have a lot of calories, so there is that.

Because I've had patients that call me to lose weight, and they're like, "Well, I was told to eat almonds." Yeah, but you're eating two bags a day. I mean, you know, so what we tell people and what they do when they get home, two different things in so many cases. So, because people tell me what they do every day, I know what kind of advice to give on a phone call.

They'll say, "How do you know I was doing it?" Because I've talked to a million people, Debbie, that's why, and they tell me what they do. I'm not that smart, I just listen. You tell me, and then I know to make sure that I say that to the next patient, as like, "Okay, maybe you were told to have almonds, but not ten handfuls anymore," right?

So, and I and I help a lot of dietitians and nutritionists manage kidney stone disease because they see it in their practice, and I always tell them, you know, just make sure that you're saying that, a precursor when you tell somebody to have foods, just they're not allowed to have as much as they want of things, and that's how people get in trouble.

And then, again, along with not getting their calcium needs met. That's how we get these higher oxalate levels. So, the spinach, unfortunately, for kidney stone people, not so great, so we take it away.

And for those of you who clicked on here and you're like, "Hey, what the hell's wrong with spinach?" I'm just saying if you have a kidney stone family history, you definitely want to give up spinach. For other people, li- listen to my warning here. Even though maybe you don't even have a family history, there's plenty of people I talk to, they don't have a family history, but they're making kidney stones, keep the spinach and almond products in check, please, and make sure you get your calcium needs every day met.

That's really important to lower urine oxalate. There we go, Jeff.

Yeah. Yeah, and I mean it's so important. It's one part of the Kidney Stone Diet, and if you're curious about all these separate goals, you can go to kidnystonediet.com right on the homepage, you can see, it'll say 100 mg of oxalate, it'll go through calcium needs, sodium, sugar, just everything.

So, just if you're not familiar, that's the best spot to go, kidnystonediet.com, or subscribe to this channel where every single week we're talking about kidney stone prevention and just improving your life, because I came from a health and wellness background. I'd never heard anything about kidney stones until I met Jill.

So, we're just trying to get the word out there as best as we can. And if you find this helpful, leave a comment, share with someone you think can benefit, and I think with that we will see you next week.

Bye, everybody.