Are vegetarian meat substitutes high in oxalate?

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your risk for kidney stones and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm your in-resident nurse, Jill Harris, here to help with your kidney stone prevention needs. Let's go. I love hearing that music.

You know, we haven't been– we haven't been able to hear it.

Makes me happy. Well, yeah, and it sets the tone, too, I feel like. It's just, really, it's nice to have it as a part of the actual live recording.

Just, I don't know, adds to it a little bit. I'm, I don't know, I like to geek out on this, on this stuff, so I'm really excited to have this unit.

Well, I like it, too. I like it, too. And, look, with COVID, nobody's been out much, so I'll take what I can get in life right now, so I'm very excited to hear it.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so you, today, you've been, you've had a little cooking marathon, knocking some stuff out for meal plans.

Yes. Yes, and, you know, my patients have pushed my limits in this, meaning in the best way possible. Because they've been asking for decades, "Jill, you need to come with a meal plan program." And I'm like, "I ain't freaking Rachel Ray, people.

I'm a nurse who helps with kidney stones with education. Please, Jill, please." So, I finally, after 21 years, have started putting the things that I eat. And these are foods people are always like, "I want to know what you eat every day." Well, here it is, people.

Here are the meal plans. These are the things that I eat every day, and they're Kidney Stone Diet compliant. You know, they're low salt, low added sugar.

You know, they're really healthy. It's really healthy food, so I hope you like it. A lot of people are loving it, so far.

So, that's good, and we'll we'll work it and tweak it as we go along. It's a brand new product, but we're very excited to offer it.

Yeah, the feedback's been awesome, like it's really– And your photos,

I'm getting better,?

Like, they blew my mind. You're really good. Like, you're a really good food photographer.

Like, I

Well, who would have ever thought that I'd be doing this? I'm telling you, I'm working– Okay, by the way, Jeff, I'm working 7 days a week. That's okay.

Does anyone know I'm old? Okay.

<laughter>

But I'm loving it. I really am loving it, I have to say. And yes, you know, I'm like, "Oh, is the light right?" My son is always like, "Are you kidding me with the light?

Who the hell are you?" I'm like, "Shut up, Nate, we got to do it! I got to find the right light, it's not good right now." Oh yeah, I'm getting into it.

And the chicken burger with the melted cheese on the cutting board, like that looks so good!

Dude, it was good, too. I am– I have eaten two of them since yesterday. So, you know, the thing is, there's only me and, you know, my son eats some of this stuff, but it's it's a lot of food I'm making, and with COVID, again, I can't bring it anywhere, so, but I have to say, I'm really liking these recipes, if I do say so myself.

Oh, yeah. You've made some wonderful, wonderful recipes, so yeah, this is fun.

I'm shocked. No one is more shocked than me. I mean, I know what I like to eat, but I'm very shocked by how this is all coming, so I'm very happy because it's all healthy food, right?

So, this is how I eat every single day, so yeah, I'm– it's fun, it's a lot of fun for me. It's something new, and I've been enjoying it.

Yeah, and this is still, we haven't really like launched the meal plans. We haven't promoted it outside of mentioning it here in the podcast, but

No, that's why it's on sale.

Yeah, so if you're interested, check it out and we're adding features, recipes, as we go, and yeah, we'd love to know what you think. So, question of the week, we have a voicemail from, I'm actually not sure what the person's name is, but let's play it right now.

Yes, hi Jill, I would like to ask a question about oxalate in vegetarian foods, such as the Beyond Burger, Beyond Breakfast Sausage, and also the Quorn brand, Q-U-O-R-N. Being a vegetarian has been really difficult in the oxalate world, but these other meats and stuff are things we enjoy, and I want to make sure they were kidney stone friendly.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Love that question. I love that question, and it's oh, there's so many things I can talk about. Okay, so this gentleman is asking about these alternative meats for people who are vegetarians and vegans.

They're eating like Beyond Burgers, and these are these are meats that are not meat, they're made with vegetables and other things, a lot of soy, all different ingredients. So, as far as oxalates concerned,

I would ask you to look at your ingredient list. If your ingredient list, the beginning of it, says really high oxalate foods, like beets, or spinach, or the really high oxalate foods, which, by the way, there are not that many, okay, soy, then I would say be very careful. The lower those ingredients go on the list, meaning, you know, here's the beginning of the ingredient list, and there's the end, that means they, ingredients appear on the list in order of how much was used, okay.

So, if beets or spinach or something like that were are on the very beginning of the ingredient list, I would stay away from those foods,

But here's a few things I want to say about those products in general, and this is what I what I say about the Kidney Stone Diet. Once you understand what foods, the handful of foods, not lots, I have many vegans and vegetarians that work with me. They come to me, their oxalate on their 24-hour urine collection was over a hundred.

We do one call together, and the next urine collection they do, their oxalate is under 30, and there's a case study on Dr. Coe's site if you want to read about that, but this happens all the time in my practice.

And what I worry about with my vegans and my beautiful veggie people is that they're taking away– you're going to hear me say this in many podcasts– you all are taking away way too much food. The bigger problem is that you are overeating spinach and almonds in any amount you wanted, all day long, with no calcium, so that's the problem.

Once you take away spinach and almonds, you know, and you add calcium to your diet, you won't have an oxalate issue anymore, for the most part, unless you have other medical conditions going on.

Now, those products that you guys are turning to, those Beyond Meat products and the Quorn or whatever the heck it's called, right, all these alternative meat companies, turn it around, Buster Brown, what is it, Jeff? What were you going to say? What's that company called?

Oh, no. Oh, yeah, it's Quorn, you got it.

Oh, yeah. You need to turn that label around. I'm passionate about the amount of sodium they're dumping in those products, guys.

Don't worry about the oxalate. Sodium, sodium, sodium with all these alternative, quote unquote, burgers, it's so high in sodium. Those, I'm getting hot under the collar because people, why am I getting hot under the collar?

Because people are doing their very best to eat healthy, and they don't understand, all they see is the front of the package. It says all these fairy tale things that the food manufacturers put at the front, so you will buy the product thinking you're doing something good for your body. Those foods, those Beyond Burger type things are so unbelievably, unbelievably processed.

They're very processed foods. I mean, shoot, I'd rather you have a hamburger, okay? It'd be a lot less salt, it'd be a lot less crap, but, of course, you're a vegetarian, you're not going to do that, but you understand what I'm saying?

It would be healthier for you to have that. These alternative meat products are filled with sodium and junk, very processed, so, look, I'm spitting on the phone! I get so upset.

I do, because people think they're eating healthy and they're doing something good for their body. It's crap.

So, does that mean you can never have it? Of course not. You may want to taste a burger tasting thing in your mouth, that's perfectly okay, but don't be using that like every day because you think you're doing your body good.

You're not. It's very processed food, so be aware of that. So, my friend who asked that question, who we don't have your name, and I'm so sorry that we don't, please know this.

It's the salt I'm worried about most, but first and foremost for you, my dear friend, please do not limit yourself. Please read the article on kidneystonediet.com, my website, on low anything low oxalate. If you go to the start page, there's a whole oxalate book along with a lot of education in that book that I give away free, of course, to help you not only understand about oxalate, but and get the right list, but also to learn how to use the list.

Not just about handing a patient an oxalate list, how do you teach them how to use the list? That's so very important, and that's the base of my job every single day with patients, so, yeah.

Yeah, really. And then with the course, too, I mean, you're you're talking about you're talking with stone formers, whether oxalate or uric acid or anything in between, and yeah, figuring out the plan that works for them is extremely important, not just it's more than just a list of almonds, spinach, beets, and raspberries.

Or raspberries or blueberries?

Raspberries.

Raspberries, you're correct.

Raspberries are high in oxalate, so raspberries and rutabaga are the only two fruits I take away from people. And, even if, I mean, say if some if a patient comes to me, so this is why I love working with my private clients and my people in the course, because they can actually say, "Hey, this is my story, Jill. Tell me what to do." So, this is why I love what I do, because people are like, "Really, you've been doing this shit for 21 years?

Are you kidding me, Jill, my friend, still doing stone disease?" Yes, because it's not just about stone disease, it's two things that are very near and dear to my heart. Number one, people are not getting the help they need, that crushes me, especially since I'm a patient myself with my with my illness from my cancer, so I understand what it feels like to be sick.

You're scared, you're anxious, now that you're getting all this information thrown at you, you have to change your whole diet around, you don't know what to do. Thank God when I got sick, I'm very well versed on diet, so, it wasn't like I needed to change anything, I eat very healthy, but I'm just saying for people who are, think, especially this guy, this patient that called us today, he's like, "Look, I'm a vegetarian," or he's eating a lot of vegetables, so now he thinks, "What the hell?

I got a kidney stone from eating really healthy?" Do you know how crushing that is for patients, perhaps they're diabetic, or they have medical conditions that they've changed their whole diet for, and now they made a stone, that breaks my heart. 21 years later, it still breaks my heart, so until this stops breaking my heart, I'm going to be screaming about it, right?

So, that's very important, and the other thing that keeps me so motivated to do this work is I talk to everybody's different, nobody has the same story, sure, everybody overate oxalate and almonds, but there's so much more to this than just oxalate. People have illnesses that are predisposing them, people are overweight, which is a factor in kidney stone disease, and why I love working with people with weight loss.

My so many of my patients lose so many pounds, why, cuz I'm the tooth fairy? I always say, "No," because they work their butts off literally, right?

So, you know, and then also, my patients who need to gain weight, there's a lot of people that are like, come, they stop eating food because they're so petrified, and they really need to put weight on, and I love working with those patients. And I know there's people in the background, "Oh, he needs to gain weight, too bad, so sad for him." It's a big deal, especially right now with the virus going on.

If you are 20 lb underweight and then maybe you get sick, you don't have any anything to spare, right? So, I'm just as passionate about that, too, a lot of people need to gain weight because they've taken so many foods away from their diet, so you could see, I have the same passion now than I did decades ago. It mean, this is very important work, I take it very seriously, even though I'm always joking around, too, but it's very serious to me, so his question is very, very important, and I get it every single day throughout my practice.

Oh, yeah. And, yeah, the joking around is just to alleviate some of that real, just immense pain and suffering people, and you want to you're trying to just make their life a little better, even if just through your interactions, so, but I think what you do is wonderful.

Oh, thanks, Jeff.

Yeah, and if anyone wants to check it out, head on over to kidneystonediet.com, that's where you can find the course, you can find the one-on-one coaching, the course, the big part of the course is the group calls, the I feel like we should call it the Kidney Stone Diet Show, now. It really feels like that's what it is.

You know, so many patients are like, "Oh, my god, Jill, I had to hurry up and finish the dishes tonight, cuz I said to my husband, "I got to– the show's on."" <laughter> Oh, my goodness, we're in trouble now, I'm already a ham, I don't need any more.

<laughter> But, yeah, I mean, it's it's essentially a live show with Jill, where she answers your questions, and it's in a group setting, but she's able to guide everyone and your questions help other people, as well, just like your questions do on this show, which, by the way, if you have a question that you would like Jill to answer on a future episode, the phone number is 773-789-8763,

And you can find that number in the show notes. I went for to try to choose the number, so I was trying to find one that had KSD in it, and stuff like that, but I thought 789-876 was, I don't know, the closest thing to a catchy, memorable number, so.

Sorry, Lou's in the background, cuz he thinks it's time to eat. He's the only dog I know that has a watch. Shut up, Lou. <laughter> I love you, but shut up.

876, wasn't that Jenny song? 876-5309 <singing> <laughter> Remember?

Yeah, it was 867-5309. <laughter> No, but that's– <laughter>

Whatever, close, close. <laughter>

I should have went for something like that, that would have been great!

Oh, no, you know, it's a good thing you didn't, cuz I would sing it every time and really annoy the hell out of people, so it's really good that you didn't, okay?

Nice. So, yeah, I think we will wrap there. So, thank you again for listening, be sure to check out the website, kidneystonediet.com, and oh, get on the email list.

Every Saturday, Jill sends out a little email to keep you on your keep you on track and help you yeah, help you sort of battle this disease, this kidney stone disease that you're facing and the stones that you're you've been dealing with, so, again, thank you for watching, and or watching or listening, and we'll see you next week.

Oh, Lou! <laughter> Shh! Bye, everybody, and thanks for that question, it was awesome, I got to feed my dog.

See ya.

Bye!