Does apple cider vinegar dissolve kidney stones?

Welcome back once again to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your risk for kidney stones and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris, and I'm here with Jill Harris, the kidney stone prevention expert. Hey there.

Hi Jeff, good to see you.

So, we're doing another big one. Does apple cider vinegar help dissolve kidney stones?

Oh yeah, apple cider vinegar. You know, apple cider vinegar, it will cure everything. Now, I have a lot of people that just say I'm a hater.

Okay, so here's what I Believe in Eastern medicine, I believe in anything that you think is going to help you, fine. Take it. But I also have to go by science most of the time here, and so there's no science that says that apple cider vinegar is going to break up a stone.

You've got to remember, this is very this is a if I do say so myself, it's a great point because a doctor is going inside your body with a laser to a stone! That's how hard it is, man. It's hard.

It's hard. So, calcium oxalate stones, which is 80% of stones are calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, too, they're not going to be broken up by anything except a surgery, unfortunately. If that were different, I'd be the first one to say buy it.

I would, buy it. The only stone that can dissolve is uric acid stones. And that's also why potassium citrate can be ordered, because potassium citrate can actually, which I forgot to say in another podcast episode, but it can be used to help break up uric acid stones.

So those are breakable. All other stones are not. So people will say, "Well, I'm just telling you that my cousin Vinnie said that he had a six-pack of beer, he had apple cider vinegar, and he sat in a tub, and his stones just fell right out of him.

Just fell right out of him, Jill. So I'm going with apple cider vinegar." And so I'm not Am I going to argue this? No.

God bless cousin Vinnie, but I'm going to push back. I'm going to push back cause that's who I am. Did cousin Vinnie pass those stones because he was drinking so much they just started moving?

Okay, cause there's that. Did they dislodge because they were already on the move, and he started drinking a ton, because most stone formers know that when they when a stone's on the move that they should also walk, move, and if they can, cause most people are too sick, but moving helps, and also a lot of fluids. So, was it all the beer?

People will say, "Well, it was beer that forced it." No, it was probably the fluids. But I'm not here to shame people, I'm not here to pass judgment on people, I'm just telling you the science will tell you that nothing can break up a stone as of yet. Uric acid stones, yes.

Calcium oxalate stones, no. Calcium phosphate stones, no. They're not going to be broken up by the potions that somebody told you to take.

There are products out there called Stone Breaker, Chanca Piedra, all this stuff. Nothing will break up a stone unless they're uric acid, so apple cider vinegar in this case, unfortunately, is not going to be helpful for this for this medical condition. No.

And when it comes to fluids, then, to help pass the stone, how much do you generally recommend for someone?

Well, here's the thing. You know, maybe, so as much as one can tolerate! Sometimes, you know, when you're passing a stone, it can get blocked, and so, you know, signs of that would be intense pain, of course.

You could have hydronephrosis, which would be found out on a on imaging. You could have a fever, so if you're drinking a lot and nothing's coming out, you need to go to the because the stone can be blocking urine, and it can't get through. So, you know, drink as much as you're able to.

If you're drinking so much and not urinating, you need to go get that checked out for sure. But I always tell patients and their doctors are telling them, you know, drink as much as you're able to drink. Don't make yourself sick, obviously, but, you know, make sure you're drinking while you're trying to pass the stone.

If at any time the pain is too intense or you have a fever or well, mostly those two things, you need to be seen by a doctor. You need to go to the even with COVID. I'm I'm sorry to say.

I'm I'm sensitive to what's going on now, but I am always worried about the risk of infection or blockage can lead to sepsis, so it's really important to heed the warning of when you need medical assistance, seek it out, please.

And just like we talked about in a different episode, too, more always so, healthy food, more healthy food isn't always better. There is a limit for water as well, because I know we can flush essential vitamins and things that we actually need in our bodies.

Yeah, I've actually had patients that they're so diligent at drinking water, their doctors said, "You need to either slow down on the water or eat a little bit more salt, because now you have hyponatremia," which is you've lost way too much salt. It's rare. I don't want to I don't want to freak people out.

I mean, but I have people that are peeing out six liters. It's like, "Oh my god, John, you don't have to do that much, really!" You know, but this is what happens when patients are so freaked out by kidney stones, meaning that's how intense this pain is. This is not for the faint of heart, this medical condition.

So, again, why I have dedicated my whole nursing career to it is because I'm trying to prevent these for people with simple, common sense tactics. And apple cider vinegar is not going to be the cure-all, and one more thing, and then I'll shut up. What I worry about with these magical potions that people want to buy on the internet is that then they think they don't have to do anything else, and that's my biggest concern.

Then, they do form other stones. It, like I said, is it coincidence? Is it happenchance that they took that pill, but they also changed their diet?

So, was it that? Was it the pill? I mean, you know, I'm just saying people just look at it.

They want a quick fix. There's none right now in stone disease. When there's a quick fix, I'll be the first one to let people know about it, and there's plenty of places in nursing I can go, so you know, it's just where this needs me right now.

And, it's not a quick fix, but what's a little bit about or why don't you tell us a little bit about the Kidney Stone Diet and the and what you offer there at kidneystonediet.com?

Yes, kidneystonediet.com is my website, and Dr. Coe and I coined the term "Kidney Stone Diet." it is a set of goals for kidney stone patients, but even people who come to me for weight loss. It is a low salt, and all the goals are given on the website.

You can find on my website, "What is the Kidney Stone Diet?" Just Google, "What is the Kidney Stone Diet and Jill?" You'll find it. And it's a lower salt diet, lower added sugar, getting enough calcium, making sure you're getting enough fluids, lowering your oxalate to an acceptable amount, not crazy, and making sure you're not eating a whole cow every single day.

Get your meat, get all your meat in check, too. So, it's all of those things. And, look, leading a healthy lifestyle, mainly also lowering portion size.

I talk about that a lot in the Kidney Stone Prevention Course, and that's my online course that you can join and work with me in a group setting, and you'll learn so much. If you just go to the reviews on my website, forget about it! Have a lot of wonderful students that have been kind enough to write wonderful reviews.

Learn about it at kidneystonediet.com.

Yeah, so thanks again for all this, Jill, and anyone who is listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, be sure to leave a review and subscribe if you're enjoying it. There's also the YouTube version where we're reading all the comments. Jill's in there responding to everyone, and if you have any questions for future episodes, be sure to let us know, either through Jill's website, kidneystonediet.com, through the comments on YouTube, on any of the other platforms where you're finding this.

But that'll do it for this week, so thanks again, Jill, and we'll see you next time.

Bye-bye.