Can a high fat diet cause kidney stones?

Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your risk for kidney stones and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris.

And I'm a nurse who specializes in kidney stone prevention diet, Jill Harris.

Yeah, so here we are with another listener question week. We actually batch all of these together, so it's we've been having fun. We were just talking about how much we like this

Format and having, like, the voice of the listener, of the people who, yeah, who you're helping.

I love it because it's so because I'm like a community kind of person. So, I love the fact that we have patients that are getting on the phone and leaving us a message with these questions and then the people that are listening to the show can say, "Oh, yeah, I have that question, too." So, you can see you're not alone, you know?

A lot of you have the same problems and questions, and, you know, it's it's a great way for people to get some support and see that they're not alone in this disease. Well, they're not alone, cuz there's millions of kidney stone formers, obviously. But, you know, it's nice to hear another person's voice.

I like that a lot.

Yeah, and also we're- hoping to reach people in the way that they want to want to be connected with because like you have the course, you have the Kidney Stone Diet show, you could say, where it's the live interaction with the group of people. But that's not necessarily for everyone. I mean, I know like personally, I'm more of a like one-on-one, private kind of connecting with someone.

So, yeah, hopefully,

This is going to help a lot of people. I don't know. I'm excited.

Yeah, this is a great Yeah, me, too, because it's an anonymous way you can just leave a voicemail at this special number that we have specifically for the show's questions. And so, yeah, I think it works out well for people who maybe don't want to write me, and yeah, like you said, do the other form. So, this is a great way to connect.

I love it. You're a genius. You're a genius.

I don't know about that, but let's dive into the question.

Okay.

Hi, Jill, this is John. My question is, what about fat in the Kidney Stone Diet? I don't see anything mentioned about fat.

My urologist has told me to have a low-fat diet because the fat combines with the calcium, and the calcium becomes unavailable to bind with the oxalates. Thank you.

So, we don't talk about fat in the Kidney Stone Diet because that is, well, it's just not part of the Kidney Stone Diet. Now, there is truth to that. If somebody, like is on keto, which is a high-fat diet—I know people use that as a high-protein diet, but it's not.

It's moderate protein, high-fat diet. That's what keto is. Or people are just eating way too much fat in their diet because they love fat, bacon and stuff like that.

When we eat too much fat,

What is too much? It depends on the person. Maybe you and maybe, Jeff, you and I eat the same exact thing, but we have very different bodies.

So, I'm going to metabolize things differently than you are. So, fat is not something specifically for the Kidney Stone Diet. I, personally, eat a lower-fat diet.

I don't have a gallbladder, so that's helpful to me. I think people should eat,

You know, normal amounts of fat, whatever that is for the diet. What is it, like 20%? Something like that in our total calories.

And not so much saturated fat, but that's what I believe, okay? If you do eat too much fat, it can combine with calcium in your gut, and that then leaves no chance for oxalate and calcium to bind together and leave through the stool, okay? So, that can be a problem.

I will say this:

I'm not talking about that very much. So, for that specific patient, maybe it is a problem for him. I don't know.

So, if I were that patient, I would say, it could be. Sometimes my patients come to me and say, "My doctor said this, but I don't even do that." "Well," I'll say, "Did you tell the doctor that?" "Well, no, I didn't think about it till I left the office." So, if a doctor asks you to do something,

Always say this: Always ask why. What is that going to do for your body? Also, it will make you be able to have a better conversation with the doctor, so maybe the doctor can learn you're not even doing a high-fat diet.

So, what I love educating patients on is this: how to talk to their doctor. Me being a patient myself, when I was going through all my cancer treatment and stuff,

I look back on that time, and I was like, there was lots of times I didn't use those office visits properly. And when I left the office, I had all these questions, and God bless good luck trying to get a doctor afterwards. It's very difficult, and we all know that.

So one of my greatest joys, and I mean this, one of my greatest joys, because I've worked in this sector so long, is I know

How to help people ask the best questions with their doctor so they can have great conversations and make the most out of that doctor appointment, and therefore, get the best treatment plan for them. And that is what will get you a good lower stone risk. That's what's going to lower your stone risk: getting on the right prevention plan for you.

Now, you may say, "Well, what the hell are you promoting this Kidney Stone Diet?" The Kidney Stone Diet is drenched in science. Although I sound like a cartoon half the time,

Everything I'm telling you is based upon lots of research, and you can find that research on Dr. Coe's site, C-O-E, he's my mentor, at kidneystonediet.uchicago.edu. There's the low-salt part of it, the low-sugar part of it, moderate amount of protein, all of these things showed, when you did too much of it, it increased calcium in patient's urine, and that increases your stone risk.

It also decreases urine volume by doing those things. So, and not getting enough calcium, getting more fluids, watching your oxalate, all of this stuff, there's lots and lots of science. If you want science enough to make your eyeballs fall out of your head, go to his site.

You'll see it. I'm on that site, too. But, so, the fat portion of this, I have a lot of patients that are on keto.

A lot of them lost weight, then gained it. Keto's not for them long term.

Then I have a lot of patients that do great on keto. They love it. It's not difficult for them, and it makes everything great.

They've lost their weight, they keep it off, but they come to me because they were eating too much oxalate. So, you can certainly do any kind of diet and still make it Kidney Stone Diet friendly. That's my specialty.

Whatever you're dealing with, I will make it then Kidney Stone Diet friendly. But, for him specifically, I would have said, if he were my patient, I would have said,

" are you on a high-fat diet?" Because if he's not on a high-fat diet and now he's going to go limit more, maybe this patient's already too thin, he's limiting himself too much, and now a doctor has said that without even really knowing. Or perhaps the doctor did have a great conversation with him, and he is eating a lot of fat, and that is a problem for him.

So, there's lots to unpack there, actually, and I would love,

You know, to have a conversation with that patient, you know? So, it So, I can't say everyone should be on a low-fat diet, and I certainly wouldn't say that everyone should be on a high-fat diet. It's very dependent on a person.

And again, I'm just going to say this, and then I'll shut up. This is why the Kidney Stone Diet is a set of goals: certain amount for salt, calcium, oxalate. We're not telling you can't eat this

Except spinach and almonds, you know? We're telling you, "Here's your goals. Whatever lifestyle you're doing, just fit into these goals, it's kidney stone safe." Okay?

I hope that makes sense.

Oh, it definitely does. And how do you end up because you have your analysis service where you help people and educate them on how to have a better a better doctor's visit? So, what is what does that service look like?

That service is so successful, and I love all my services because what am I in your for, to help people? But that service is awesome. It's a 15-minute call.

It's only $49, and it will be the best 50 bucks you ever spent in your life because, with that call, if you have a 24-hour urine collection, I will help you understand the values, so then, when you go to your doctor's office visit,

The doctor may say, "Oh, everything looks good, Tim." But you may know a little bit better and say, "Well, what about this? What about this? What about this?" Because now you're educated.

So, you're able to get the most out of that doctor office visit. Or maybe a doctor wants to put a patient on a medication, but now the patient's educated. I'm not saying that the patient shouldn't go on a medication.

In many cases, kidney stone formers have to. But the fact remains this: if the patient did one 24-hour urine collection,

I can educate them and say, "Look, the doctor may say you should go on a pill now, but you can say, 'Well, Doctor, how about I change my diet first to see if I need that pill? We'll do a follow-up collection, and maybe even if I do need the pill, at least maybe it could be a lower dose.'" And then the doctor will say, "Oh, sure, of course." Doctors are coming from Most patients don't want to change their diet, just so you know.

And if patients really loved changing their diet, I would have retired 10 years ago. But it's very difficult for patients to change their diet and change their lifestyle. It's not it's actually pretty simple, but it's not easy, okay?

So, anyway, the point is, so you can really get good doctor office visits, and that service patients freak out over. They're so grateful. And I wish I had that.

I wish, before I was going for all my cancer stuff,

Somebody sat me down and said, [clears throat] "Before you're going in, make sure you ask the doctor this, this, and this," because when you're in those doctor's office visits, I don't care if you have cancer, the flu, a kidney stone, whatever, it's you're scared, and you know they're in a rush. So, that makes you kind of nervous, too.

So, you know, I'm a patient as well, so I understand what it feels like to sit in that chair. And it can be overwhelming and anxiety producing, so I really believe that everyone should be their very own best advocate. But you don't know how to be an advocate unless you're educated properly, and there's so much junk on the internet that will make your head spin that it makes you feel even worse.

So, my heart always feels for that, you know? So, that's why I made that service. That's why we have that service on the website.

Oh, yeah. I mean it's very important to go in and be an advocate for yourself and also to be able to, like, leave an appointment, which is, as you say, it's hard to get. You don't have a lot of time with a doctor because they're extremely busy.

But the more that you're educated, the better the better the outcomes.

Yes. Yeah.

I think this was great. Actually, there is one other since we were talking about fat, there's a very short question about keto that I was just going to play for you just about and it's specifically about, putting on fat.

Okay, cool.

Hi. I was wondering whether anybody can put on weight on a keto diet? Thank you, bye.

I think anybody can put weight on any diet. So, it's going to be portion with fat, too. So, now, hear me out.

For me, this is just my opinion. Y'all need to do You're all grown-up. Do what you need to do.

I would never want to increase my portion sizes on things on keto. It's not the best diet for me. I can't have a high-fat diet.

So, that wouldn't be my that wouldn't be my jam. But if you wanted to do keto, and you wanted to gain weight on it, you don't have to lose weight on all these diets. When you want to gain weight, again, it's portion game.

You might want to up your calories. At the end of the day, guys, you can hear whatever you want, and I know I'll get a lot of flak for this, but if you want to lose weight, you need to eat less and move more, or at least one of those things. And if you need to gain weight, you probably need to eat more, but you're just afraid because you don't want to eat the wrong things and make a kidney stone.

I have a lot of patients that come to me, and they're underweight, and so we have to work on increasing their weight. So what you need to do, my dear friend who asked that wonderful question, is talk to your doctor. If you want to do keto, is that the right diet for you to gain weight on?

Okay? That is a very specific diet. You may have other medical conditions that keto diet may not work well for you, okay?

I will say this about keto, too. Some people will go on it, their cholesterol goes down, their this goes down, everything beautiful. Some people go on it, and that's not the case because, again, I'm looking at labs all day long.

So, one diet does not fit everybody here. Everybody's body, I don't know why we think, well, because this is what the industry has us believe, we all have very different genetic makeups. Every single one of us.

Jeff and I, again, can eat the same food. Why'd I get cancer, and he didn't? Why?

Because I have a genetic predisposition to stuff that he may not. So, don't treat your body, you know, as my body is your body. We're all very, very different.

It's very important you realize that. So, you may try a diet and say, " that didn't work for me." Maybe your body doesn't like that diet. It is not one size fit all.

And again, the you didn't fail, the diet failed you. So, I want you to think of it that way. The only diet that's going to work for you guys is the diet that works for you.

And the Kidney Stone Diet is a set of goals that whatever lifestyle you want to plug in there, you can achieve, okay? You just have to do the salt and sugar and get your enough calcium and don't overeat meat protein. We don't need it, people.

Get enough fluids and watch your oxalate if you need to do that. That was a great question. I loved it.

I have actually never been asked that specific question, "Can I gain weight on keto?" So, I really like that. I like being stumped. I like a new question.

For sure. And I thought it was good to lump those together, since this is sort of more of an episode all about fat. But for anyone who is interested in more about the Kidney Stone Diet, you can go to kidneystonediet.com.

If you go to kidneystonediet.com/start, that is the best spot to really get your jumpstart into finding the oxalate list, the safe oxalate list, the different resources that you can print and put on your refrigerator to remind you how much calcium, how much sodium, and things that you need in your day. And then, if you want to dive deeper, there's the Kidney Stone Diet course, there's one-on-one consulting with Jill, the urine analysis, so lots and lots of stuff out there.

Lots of stuff. And I, personally, curated that page. That is a place I want patients to start because look, if I go to other people's websites looking for something, I don't want to go all over their site.

I want one page. I'm old and annoyed easily. So, I want one page.

I don't want to be going through everything. So, that page, guys, everything you need free, right there, okay? Easy-peasy.

Yeah, I think that is the perfect place for someone to start. So, yeah. Yeah, just want to thank everyone for listening again to this week.

I hope that you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to keep the questions coming. Actually, what is that phone number one more time?

It is 773-789-8763, and we may feature your question on a future episode of the show. So,

Love it. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Bye, guys. Thanks so much.