# Think oxalate caused your kidney stone? Think again. Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/think-oxalate-caused-your-kidney-stone-think-again/ Published: 2025-12-16 Author: Jill Harris, LPN, CHC --- [Embedded content](https://www.youtube.com/embed/VWRSjNLEgWg?feature=oembed) In this conversation, Jeff Sarris and Jill Harris discuss the common misconceptions surrounding kidney stones, particularly the role of oxalate and sodium in their formation. Jill emphasizes the importance of managing sodium intake to prevent kidney stones and shares practical dietary tips for listeners. The conversation also highlights the significance of maintaining a balanced diet while enjoying favorite foods, encouraging listeners to stay consistent with their dietary goals without feeling deprived. 00:00 Understanding Kidney Stones and Oxalate\ 06:39 The Role of Sodium in Kidney Stone Formation\ 11:33 Practical Tips for Managing Diet and Kidney Stones **Jeff Sarris (00:00)**\ Do you think [oxalate](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/) caused your kidney stone? Well, think again. Everyone’s afraid of oxalate. Understandably, that’s the number one thing people learn about after getting a kidney stone. But what’s the actual thing? What’s something that people need to be thinking about that maybe they aren’t? Maybe oxalate is steering them completely away from this common issue. **Jill (00:25)**\ Yes, Jeff, here’s the deal. Many people who have not done urine collections, and even people who have done urine collections, they will tell me, you know, my doctor said that my oxalate is fine. Obviously they did a urine collection and that’s how the doctor knows that. And I’m just a stone maker. The doctor said it’s just, I’m just a stone maker. But the doctor never talked to the patient about salt. And so we have a goal at the [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com). And one of the goals, there’s six. One of them is to keep your sodium down to around 1,500. By the way, the American Heart Association also calls for this number. Now, many times I will tell patients this. On the goal sheet at kidneystonediet.com, salt is listed as 1,500 milligrams a day. But I like to say 1,500 to 2,000. Why, Jill, it’s supposed to be 1,500? Because when I say 1,500, people go to 600, 400 because surely less must be better and then people pass out. I say it all the time. So please don’t do that. If a goal is what it is, stick around it, not way lower than that. Okay? So I’ll tell patients 1,500 to 2,000. So they know if they’re going anywhere, they go higher. Okay. This is very difficult for most people. Everybody who does what I say as far as preventing kidney stone and I look at their urine collection and I say lower the oxalate, they do the follow-up test and their oxalate is like a baby. It’s under 30 which is where we want it on the urine collection results. You get 100 milligrams of oxalate a day to eat but on your urine results we want the oxalate value to be less than 30 in your urine. So you know, every lab result says different things. Some will say, oh, 45 is great. No, it ain’t. We want it under 30. OK. So what doesn’t get discussed a lot is sodium is a huge driver of kidney stones. And it is really one of the hardest goals to achieve. I hear that every single day. Jill, it’s so hard. Listen, if you go out to eat, you’re eating like 3,000 milligrams of sodium right there, a couple pieces of pizza is a thousand, fifteen hundred, two thousand milligrams of sodium. So are you doomed? No, you just get right back on track. That’s all. You’re going to have saltier meals sometimes. Why is it that salt is such a pain in the tush for us? Well, number one, when we eat too much salt, people don’t urinate as much. Common scenario. Jill, I don’t even know what’s going on here. I drink like a fish. Ain’t nothing coming out of me. And that’s because Paul has a 10,000 milligrams a day salt habit. So we all know this. When we eat too much salt, we can’t button up our jeans. That’s just, we get all bloated around the middle. Our rings don’t fit anymore. We have rings around our ankle from our socks indentation. We’re bloated because now that wherever salt is, water follows. So we get bloated. When you eat too much sodium, you bloat. So you will also dehydrate. The other thing that sodium can do is increase your urine calcium. A lot of doctors will look at your urine collection results and say, hey, Tommy, this calcium in your urine is way too high. You’re going on a diuretic, which is a pill that will help lower your urine calcium. But why the hell is Tommy going to go on a pill when his sodium is high and all he has to do is lower it? That’s really important. None of you should be going on a pill unless you have already lowered your sodium. So here is ideally how it should go. You do a urine collection. The doctor looks at the results. The doctor says, hey, Tommy, this salt in your collection, this sodium level is 6,000. You got to lower that because it’s pulling calcium out of your bone, dumping it into the urine. And when we have too much calcium in the urine, that is a huge stone increased risk. It will also leave your bones depleted, increasing your risk for osteoporosis. So that’s super important. Then what the doctor should do is this. Okay, Tommy, let’s lower your sodium to 1,500 to 2,000 milligrams a day. We’re gonna do a follow-up test and we’re gonna see if you still have high urine calcium. Or is lowering the sodium good enough for you. For most of you, just lowering the sodium you’re taking in every day will not only help your blood pressure, but it will also help you get the calcium out of your urine and keep it in the bone. Also, you’ll pee more without adding one more cup of fluid. Okay? So when we lower sodium, we decrease the urine calcium. That’s a good thing because when you have too much calcium in the urine in your kidney, oxalate, phosphate, all those crystals are looking for each other. And that’s how you form stones, especially if you don’t pee a lot. The longer these crystals stay in your kidney, the more prone you are to forming kidney stones. So you’ve got to flush those crystals out. So if you’re eating a lot of sodium, guess what else? You’re not flushing those crystals out because now you’re getting bloated and the kidneys are dealing with that excess fluids and nothing’s leaving. So that’s super important too. So before you get put on a diuretic, please say, hey doctor, it looks like I have room to lower my sodium. Can I do that first and then see if I need the diuretic? Some of you will still need the diuretic. Well, what the hell, Jill? Why do I gotta worry about my sodium then? Because if you don’t, those pills don’t work as well. So you see, I still get my way for you eating healthier, because it’s healthier to eat less salt, period. Because if your kidneys have to work harder to filter all that extra stuff, guess what else has to work harder? Your heart. So lowering sodium is not just great for your kidneys, it’s also wonderful for your heart. And any cardiologist will tell you that as well. So sodium is really, really, really hard to lower. It hides out in things. People will say, Jill, I don’t use a salt shaker. I’ve heard it a million times. I hear it every single day, multiple times a day. And then when I figure out how much salt they eat on that urine collection, they’re flabbergasted. Because you don’t realize it. So there’s salt hidden in so many things. In your bread, in your oatmeal, in your pizza which you don’t think, you like a dry martini, that’s because it’s salty, olive, olives, olives juice, okay, very salty and I know people that are eating half a jar of olives a day and they don’t realize that. It’s silly things like that. Look at your soy sauce. Jill, I love stir fries, I’m eating so healthy. There’s a thousand milligrams of sodium in that soy sauce for one little tiny bit. Canned goods. Look for canned good labels. Get the lowest salt one. Soups are notorious for having high sodium. So read your nutrition labels. Per portion is you want lower sodium per portion. So people will say, Jill, I’m eating low sodium tortilla chips. Well, they’re not low sodium when you eat a whole bag, Fran. **Jeff Sarris (08:18)**\ Mm-hmm. **Jill (08:27)**\ I guess so, Jill. I also hate you, Jill. Cheese! People love cheese. Jill, I love cheese. And you said to get calcium, so I’m gonna eat so much cheese. Please don’t. Please don’t, Carol. Because all that cheese has lots of salt. Swiss cheese for calcium is the best, lowest salt one. Not as sexy as the others, but cheese is, again, cottage cheese. My God, everybody’s making cottage cheese recipes. It’s so salt-laden. Half a cup of cottage cheese, 400 milligrams of sodium. Now you could say, I love it Jill and I watch my sodium everywhere else. God bless, go forth. If you can, you can have whatever you want as long as you stay in the goals. Okay? And if you have a day where you don’t stay in the goals, that’s okay. You’re not making a stone with that lunch. Just please get right back on track. What I’m asking is that you never give up. So when you have whatever it is and you go over your kidney stone diet goals that day, it’s okay. Get right back on track the next day. It’s when we give up that diets don’t work. Everyone here has lost weight and you’ve gained it all back a million times in your lifetime, especially if you’re my age in your 60s. I’m asking not for perfection. I’m asking for consistency. So when you enjoy, when you have your favorite cupcake or whatever it is, you have your cottage cheese, you go over, you’re going out. **Jeff Sarris (09:30)**\ Mm-hmm. **Jill (09:51)**\ You’re going out with the girls or the guys and you’re gonna have beer and nachos and all that crap. I could care less. You gotta have a good time in life too. Get right back on track. That’s how we do it at kidneystonediet.com. You don’t get obese, don’t get diabetes, you don’t get kidney stones when you get right back on track. Okay? That’s it. **Jeff Sarris (10:09)**\ Yeah. And if you’re worried about what you can eat and if you can, if you’re missing out on things that you love, we have kidney stone diet meal plans at kidneystonediet.com with hundreds of recipes that Jill’s made over the years that keep you on track without sacrificing any of the flavor. And it’s inspiration. Also it’s, you don’t have to eat every recipe. There’s four recipes a day that you get every single day of the week, but it’s really just to show you how much you can eat along with notes from Jill to— **Jill (10:16)**\ Yes. **Jeff Sarris (10:37)**\ Remind you that, maybe this does have oxalate, but you don’t have to be zero. **Jill (10:39)**\ Jeff, that’s right, I just put in a recipe this morning that had everything that people are afraid of, Brussels sprouts, sweet potato, carrots and pecans. People are gonna read that and go, my God, Jill must be drinking during this cooking fest. But I said in the notes, I’m like, I put in things in this recipe that really make me happy and they may be a little higher in oxalate. But notice the portions. And by the way, in the meal plan, I calculate all the oxalate for you so you never have to worry. So in that dish is only 21 milligrams of oxalate per serving. So you get a hundred a day and that’s it. Most people take away all those foods. I specifically will cook with a little higher oxalate foods or foods I know people are afraid of so they can see, my God, I can eat these, which takes away the whole fear of eating, takes away there’s nothing left to eat. It’s not true. That meal plan is gold, baby. **Jeff Sarris (11:42)**\ Absolutely. Yes, you can find that and more at kidneystonediet.com. So I think with that we’ll wrap and we’ll see you next week. **Jill (11:49)**\ Bye everybody.