# Does Kratom cause kidney stones? Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/preview/ep/does-kratom-cause-kidney-stones/ Published: 2023-10-24 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/preview/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlMEEqYDPM)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/does-kratom-cause-kidney-stones/id1528474326?i=1000632448522&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0HD3tFacJPTsPs8oWlg3hT)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) October 24, 2023 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill answers a listener question about kratom, oxalate, and if it’s safe for kidney stone formers. This podcast is designed to entertain and inform — not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment. **HAVE A QUESTION? _**\ Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763. \ **SUPPORT THE SHOW _** - [Join the Patreon](https://patreon.com/kidneystonediet) - Rate Kidney Stone Diet on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kidney-stone-diet/id1528474326) or [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5O9BXOJUFnnT6JSgfxramx?si=T6lIOozgTUO8K6MobpVWsQ) - **BUY JILL’S FAVORITE PRODUCTS _** - [Silk Coconut Milk, Unsweetened](https://amzn.to/3jUd9x8) - [Good Karma Non Dairy Unsweetened Flaxmilk](https://amzn.to/3vQZN7J) - [Ripple Unsweetened Pea Milk](https://amzn.to/3GOP7wB) - [Oatly Unsweetened Oat Milk](https://amzn.to/3Gvjwi2) - [Healthy ‘N Fit 100% Egg Protein](https://amzn.to/3lgfXWb) - [Fairlife Core Power Elite High Protein Shake, Vanilla](https://amzn.to/3jlVKNV) - [Hydroflask](https://amzn.to/3CAD2bU) **WORK WITH JILL _** - [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention) - [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/) - [Safe Snacks and Desserts Ebook](https://kidneystonediet.com/ebook/) - [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/) - [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **KIDNEY STONE RESOURCES _** - [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/) - [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) - [Meat Protein Calculator](https://kidneystonediet.com/protein/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) \ **WHO IS JILL HARRIS? _**\ Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com/), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. *Some of the links above may be affiliate links which means that we earn a small commission from qualifying purchases at no additional cost to you. Thanks for your support!\*\ —— ***Kidney Stone Diet is a SPYR Podcast _****\*\ [*More SPYR Podcasts*](http://spyr.fm/)*_*\ Starting Now / By Amara ## Chapters - 00:00:00 Remembering Podcast Fan Margaret - 00:03:18 Preserving Audio Memories of Loved Ones - 00:05:59 Evaluating Kratom for Oxalates and Kidney Stones - 00:08:35 Oxalate Levels in Oils and CBD Alternatives - 00:12:42 Box Breathing and Coping Strategies for Anxiety - 00:15:43 Testing Dietary Supplements With Urine Collections - 00:17:41 Supplement Endorsements and Kidney Stone Prevention Myths ## Transcript ### Remembering Podcast Fan Margaret 00:00:00 Jill Harris The following is designed to entertain and inform, not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment. 00:00:20 Jeff Sarris Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:28 Jill Harris And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. Let me tell you something. I'm going to start on a sad note. Jeff doesn't know I'm going to say this. So, my mom was a big fan of this show, and she died September 1st. And it was a relief because she has been suffering so much, and so it was very expected. Anyway, so I was going through her things, and you know me, what did I want, diamonds and pearls? No. I got her flannel pajamas, all of them. I'm so happy to have them. I went through some of her letters and personal things she wrote. And why I'm bringing this up here is because she called in a couple times to the show, and she was over-the-top number one fan of the show. She didn't say much of it to me, but I know my mother, so I know she was, okay? So when I was going through some of her letters, in one of her notebooks, and I took them, was she wrote out what she was going to ask us on the show. So she prepared, and if you know my mother, well, you know me, so you know my mother, part of her anyway, the ham. So, I know my mother. She wrote it was a script, what I'm going to ask, what Jill might say, then I'll tell her, whatever, and then she'll say. It was all written out. So, I thought that was the funniest thing, and it said, "Jeff and Jill Show, questions to ask," and then a script. And I was like, isn't that the sweetest? I don't even know what it is. My mother was performing. She wanted to get it right. She, you know, that's who she was. Me, I don't write nothing. I just improvise, so we're totally different people that way. But I just thought that was the sweetest thing. 00:02:26 Jeff Sarris It really is. Yeah, and then to like just discover that, just — yeah. I mean, it was always so sweet when she would call in, too, because you could just — you could feel yeah, how proud she was of you and everything, and yeah. 00:02:44 Jill Harris Jeff, don't let her fool you, though, and I know she's listening from wherever. Don't let her fool you, she wanted to get on the show. She's like, "Oh, you're doing a YouTube show?" I should have known then because the first, right away, she got a pen and paper out, started to write ideas down. My mother wanted to be on the screen. I mean, it's hilarious. So, I just wanted to bring that up. She was a huge fan, huge fan, and so– 00:03:13 Jeff Sarris Well, yeah, I'm so glad we got to sort of like immortalize her voice through the show in some way, obviously, yeah. ### Preserving Audio Memories of Loved Ones 00:03:18 Jill Harris Me, too. Me, too. So, it's funny because I've listened to some of those shows since she's died, and yes, it's it provides — I always tell people, and it's funny, I didn't talk to my mother much on the phone. We're We're really not phone people, but I'd visit her, obviously, but cuz she lives only 45 minutes away. But I always tell people, like when my son was little, a friend of mine said, "Tape his voice now, Jill, because when he's a grown man, you're going to forget this voice." And I did. And I'm so grateful he did that. I have like recordings my father has sent me, he's still alive. But I never taped my mom's voice, like, you know, on a voicemail or anything. I didn't save it because, like I said, she didn't really call me. But I We do have her on the show, so it's pretty freaking amazing, and they were they were great little shows, too. So, look for those, guys. You can meet my mother on the YouTube show. And subscribe in memory of Marge. And I know people are like, "Really, Jill? You're telling You're bringing up your mother who's gone and now you're telling us to subscribe? Well, now we have to." Yeah, you do. Because Margaret would have been very happy. She would say, "Why don't people subscribe, Jill?" I'd say, "Ma, you know, not everyone wants to." So, please do it. That's how you can make me feel better, subscribe, cuz it would have made my mom happy, quite frankly. Anyway, so that's what's new and I've been dealing with that. Like I said, more of a relief than anything else. And so– 00:04:46 Jeff Sarris And just so people know, because it was — she had gotten — she had gotten progressively worse over time, so, yeah. 00:04:53 Jill Harris Yes, and for my mother, she had mouth cancer. For her not to be able to talk, well, that was a problem. Here's one more funny story, indulge me. So, my stepdad, her husband, who, oh my god, loved her, he said one day she was very frustrated, but she and she really couldn't talk, right? So, she got — my mother was a smart woman — she got the Comcast remote and started typing what she wanted to say on the TV! And he called me, he's like, "You're not going to believe what your mother did." I said, "Yes, I do. I believe everything," because to take Mom's voice away is to take her heart away. So, yeah, you know damn well she's going to find a way to communicate. Oh my god, my mother was something special, that's for sure, in many different ways. So, this show is this show is for you, Mom, watching me from heaven or wherever you are. 00:05:49 Jeff Sarris Absolutely. Yeah. So, I guess– 00:05:54 Jill Harris Should we, yeah? I don't know how we segue from that, but let's just go. ### Evaluating Kratom for Oxalates and Kidney Stones 00:05:59 Jeff Sarris Yeah, so we'll dive into the question this week, and this is from Lawrence. Yes, hello, Jill and Jeff. Your videos are very informative. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. My name's Lawrence Kostic. I'm calling from Carnegie, Pennsylvania. I just have one quick question about kratom, an herb for pain and anxiety. I've been taking it since February of this year. And recently I watched one of your videos that were done a couple of months ago or whatever and one and in the comment section someone asked in there, right out of the blue, "Does kratom, high in oxalates?" So, and then there was a reply. It says that they said, between 5 and 19 g of kratom could be high in oxalates. I take 20 g of kratom every day for pain and anxiety. But if you could answer this question, I'll I'll stop taking it if it's if it's high in oxalates, you know, or like Jill says, cut it curb it down. But thank you so much and I'll be looking forward to maybe watching another podcast and, you know, and hearing the answer. Thanks again, both you guys. You're wonderful. Take care. Bye. 00:07:22 Jill Harris What a kind-sounding man. 00:07:25 Jeff Sarris Absolutely. 00:07:26 Jill Harris Lawrence, you're very kind sounding and that warmed my heart. So, thank you for calling in. Kratom. Lawrence, I don't know. I, you know, whoever replied to the YouTube channel, and because I've been I've been busy, I haven't I haven't looked at the comments in the last couple weeks since my mom died, so I'm behind in that. I definitely would have said something, and I will go make sure I do comment on that. We don't have any reliable source on how much oxalate's in kratom. So, I don't know. Now, it must be working for you for your pain and anxiety, so it's hard for me to say continue taking it, it's working for you. I know that I do, and I'm not I am not suggesting you change a thing. My answer to you, Lawrence, is I don't know if it has oxalate in it. I guess I would say, too, what form are you taking it? I would Isn't there several forms that one can take? I really don't know, Jeff. 00:08:30 Jeff Sarris Yeah, I don't know enough about it. I just I have a very surface level ### Oxalate Levels in Oils and CBD Alternatives 00:08:35 Jill Harris Yeah, me, too. I know that I know that I took kratom once, full disclosure, because I'm not I tell it like it is. I took kratom once when it first came out, when I was going through my cancer stuff, my chemo. It did nothing for me except make me anxious. Again, this has been this is like 6 years ago now, so and maybe I didn't know what I was doing and I picked the wrong kind, blah, blah, blah. So, nothing against kratom, God bless. But I'm just not sure. So, where that comment came from and where that information, that resource came from, I see nothing under PubMed or NIH, and those are that's where I get my, you know, that's where I look. I don't look under Reddit. I don't look under abckratom.com. I don't look in I look for you know, quality resources. So, I don't know. I do know I take CBD before bed. I know a lot of my patients take melatonin and magnesium citrate, and all kinds of things to calm down. I personally like CBD. I'm not telling nobody to do nothing. I'm just telling you what I do. I like CBD. It comes from Verma Farms, V-E-R-M-A. It's a good quality CBD. It really relaxes me at night without any without any THC, so I'm not high. Can you imagine me high, people? And God bless, if you guys want to smoke pot, go do what you need to do. It's none of my I don't care what you do. But the CBD, I use it as an oil. The reason I bring that up, Lawrence, is that may help you, too. Oils have very, very little oxalate, very little, if any, in oil. So, if you can take kratom as an oil, I don't know what your what form you're taking. Maybe you it might be the form you want to change. I want you to call or write in a comment under this video what form of kratom you're taking and I can even answer you more. On this channel, I don't I don't judge anybody for the forms of pain relief, anxiety relief. There is no dogma. There is no judgment. If somebody needs something to relieve anxiety, I always suggest talking to a therapist, if you can afford it. I have one. You're damn right I ordered one up when I was going through all my mother's illness for the last several months, ordered it up. If you need something to sleep, talk to your doctor. Meditate, deep breathing. I have this thing my therapist suggested last week cuz I am having trouble sleeping. I'm under a lot of stress. And so, she — and look this up on YouTube, folks, it's been very helpful to me. So, free therapeutic advice for those of us, especially nowadays, especially right now in our world. This is being recorded the b- the middle of October, so there's a lot going on in our world. There's this thing called box breathing, box, B-O-X, from the Navy SEALs, and it's a wonderful, wonderful thing to decrease stress, help with your parasymp- parasympathetic nervous system going crazy, right, to make yourself feel better. And it's it goes like this, and then I'll shut up about it. But it's been really helpful for me. It's think of a box like this, and you can, like I said, Google it, and it will give you the image. You do four breaths up, 1, 2, 3, 4, hold it, 1, 2, 3, 4, release it, 1, 2, 3, 4, hold it, 1, 2, 3, 4, and then start over. 4 seconds, 4 seconds, 4 seconds, 4 seconds. So, you deep breathe in, hold it for 4 seconds, deep breathe hold it. Hold on, Jeff! ### Box Breathing and Coping Strategies for Anxiety 00:12:42 Jeff Sarris I think I know. So, it's a 4-second cadence for each step, right? The 4-second breathe in, 4-second hold, 4-second breathe out, 4-second pause, I guess. 00:12:55 Jill Harris Thank you. 00:12:55 Jeff Sarris Okay. 00:12:56 Jill Harris Yes, and it really, really works. And the other day, I was I was really wound up, and that I did that all day long, walking the dog, wa- I mean, it really helped me. So, I suggest it. But on this channel, we say whatever works for you, works for you. So, if you want to do kratom, I don't know how much oxalate is in it. I'd like to know the form you're doing it. It could be absolutely fine. I don't know. As far as you know, if you need meds, talk to your doctor. Therapy, talk to your doctor. I say all this because I know as a patient myself with my illness, with illness comes a lot of anxiety, a lot. Then you add on all the shit that's going on in our world, and at some point, the anxiety's just, wow, right? So, being ill, daily life stressors, world events can be very scary. And so, we need healthy coping skills, not in the form of overeating, binging, not eating, you know. We need healthier coping skills. I have lots of things on my blog for stuff like this because I've dealt with a lot of anxiety due to my illness, specifically. But then, you know, we all go through certain parts of our life are more stressful than others. So, Lawrence, I'm really happy about your question. I wish I had a better answer. I'm just not sure. But when this video airs, put in the comments what form you're using, and honestly, if it's oils or gummies, I just I wouldn't think there'd be much oxalate in it. And between the time this v- I think this video may air tomorrow, but I'll research it a little bit more, because Jeff asks me these questions on the fly, but there's no good resource to tell us. So, the answer is I'm not sure. Does that mean I want you to stop using kratom? Not if it's working for you. Does it mean that maybe you can find another form that can work equally as well in a in a tincture or an oil? Would that might be better and make me feel a little happier about my answer? Yes, but what's really important is that whatever method you're choosing is working for you. So, that's really important. I'm not going to dismiss it. I just don't know how much oxalate's in it. So, when that happens, you know what I say, Lawrence, because you're a somebody who watches the show, but make sure I'm not going to say portion not perfection because you have a certain dose and you're doing it every day, but I am going to ensure you to make sure you get your calcium needs met every day. Of course, that helps lower oxalate. I just don't think, Lawrence, it would it would have a lot of oxalate in it. I really don't. That's my answer. I really don't think so. ### Testing Dietary Supplements With Urine Collections 00:15:43 Jeff Sarris Would you consider — I mean, it would I guess it would be sort of a lot, but would you ever recommend someone who's really curious about something like this to maybe go off, do a urine analysis, and then go back on, or anything like that? I mean, it's it's a lot of money to do both, but I'm just curious. 00:16:02 Jill Harris Yeah, what I would do is if you're going I wouldn't tell them to do a urine collection just for that because it is expensive to do a urine collection if your insurance or not is not paying for it. So, what I would say is when you do a urine collection, for those of you who are worried about something you're doing, and how much oxalate it may be adding to your diet to your numbers on your 24-hour urine collection, please do that thing on the day of your urine collection, except vitamin C, okay? Don't don't use vitamin C. There's some vitamins that can screw up your urine collection results and they don't want that to happen, okay? So, you whatever it says, but nobody's going to say don't do kratom. You can do kratom and see when you do your urine collection. And, Jeff, it's a great It's a great question you're even asking, because, Lawrence, do you even have high oxalate? Do you know? Have you done a urine collection? Is oxalate your issue in making kidney stones? So, there's that. 00:17:05 Jeff Sarris Yeah, but I think that was a great question, and it also sort of hits home to a lot of times people will be like, "Oh, I'm the expert. I have to have an answer for everything." And that's something I always have respected about like how you do what you do, is if you don't have the answer, you're not making one up. You're not just You're not going on Reddit and seeing what people are generally saying, because that's not how you get the right results. So, we really appreciate you, Lawrence, for calling in because there are people who are going out and finding information that could be right, could be wrong, but we truly do not know yet. ### Supplement Endorsements and Kidney Stone Prevention Myths 00:17:41 Jill Harris Yep, and I think for anybody who is an expert in their field, they become that way not from knowing everything, they become that way for really knowing a lot of information on a very specific topic. And so, I'm always the first one to say I don't know about a lot of things. This I know, and also it's my integrity and character. My daddy taught me all this. It's like, you know, I'm going to be the first one to say I don't know, because people come to me because they trust me. And so, I'm always going to be honest because I don't I take that very seriously. You know, when supplement companies come to me, "Well, Jill, endorse this because people trust you so much." Why do they? I'm not endorsing it because I because they trust me because I'm not I'm not bullshit. I'm telling it I'm I'm saying what I know. And you know, there's no money in the world that's going to make me ever do anything that I don't believe in. Just how many hoodies could I buy? I got enough. I don't What do I need? I got dog food. I got my apartment. I got food. I'm good. I don't need lots of money from endorsing. I'll it is very doubtful that I will endorse anything for the general public to prevent kidney stones, because there is no one thing there's no one pill that's going to prevent kidney stones for everybody. There just isn't. If one day there becomes that, I'll be the first one to talk about it. There's not. There's just not. So. 00:19:16 Jeff Sarris Well, I think with that, we will wrap for this week. Again, Lawrence, thank you so much for the question. And anyone else out there who has a question, the number is 773-789-8763 and we would love to feature your voice in the future. And if you want to dive deep, you can find everything Kidney Stone Diet related at kidneystonediet.com where you can find the meal plans, the prevention course, the group calls with Jill where you get to work with Jill directly in a group setting. And there are — there are also private calls as well if that's something that you prefer. But the group calls are such a an immense value for what it is that we like to always recommend that first for everyone. 00:19:56 Jill Harris Yeah, 'cause most people can afford that. It's very, and it's a wonderful, family-like, loving, supportive community. Did you see my rockstar hoodie? 00:20:04 Jeff Sarris Yeah, I like it. 00:20:06 Jill Harris I got those. 00:20:07 Jeff Sarris I like it a lot. 00:20:09 Jill Harris I know, I know. We'll link that below, too, 'cause people ask about this, the rockstar one. Not everyone wants a stoner t-shirt, so I did the — we did the rockstar, too. So, they're really cute. 00:20:20 Jeff Sarris Yeah, check out the shop at kidneystonediet.com for that. 00:20:23 Jill Harris Yep, and subscribe to the channel, folks, please. Just press the red button. Thank you. 00:20:28 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and we will see you next week. 00:20:30 Jill Harris Bye, guys! Thanks, Lawrence, awesome question!