# Will I make more kidney stones? Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/will-i-make-more-kidney-stones/ Published: 2023-02-28 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98DAFhT-ycs)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/will-i-make-more-kidney-stones/id1528474326?i=1000602131340&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4UJoKYMNGg0D4ZYUqXBz8f)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) February 28, 2023 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill answers a listener question about the likelihood of forming more kidney stones. Mentioned in this episode: - [Focus Keeper](https://focuskeeper.co/) (Pomodoro Timer App) This podcast is designed to entertain and inform — not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment. **HAVE A QUESTION? _**\ Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763. \ **SUPPORT THE SHOW _** - [Join the Patreon](https://patreon.com/kidneystonediet) - Rate Kidney Stone Diet on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kidney-stone-diet/id1528474326) or [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5O9BXOJUFnnT6JSgfxramx?si=T6lIOozgTUO8K6MobpVWsQ) - **BUY JILL’S FAVORITE PRODUCTS _** - [Silk Coconut Milk, Unsweetened](https://amzn.to/3jUd9x8) - [Good Karma Non Dairy Unsweetened Flaxmilk](https://amzn.to/3vQZN7J) - [Ripple Unsweetened Pea Milk](https://amzn.to/3GOP7wB) - [Oatly Unsweetened Oat Milk](https://amzn.to/3Gvjwi2) - [Healthy ‘N Fit 100% Egg Protein](https://amzn.to/3lgfXWb) - [Fairlife Core Power Elite High Protein Shake, Vanilla](https://amzn.to/3jlVKNV) - [Hydroflask](https://amzn.to/3CAD2bU) **WORK WITH JILL _** - [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention) - [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/) - [Safe Snacks and Desserts Ebook](https://kidneystonediet.com/ebook/) - [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/) - [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **KIDNEY STONE RESOURCES _** - [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/) - [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) - [Meat Protein Calculator](https://kidneystonediet.com/protein/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) \ **WHO IS JILL HARRIS? _**\ Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. *Some of the links above may be affiliate links which means that we earn a small commission from qualifying purchases at no additional cost to you. Thanks for your support!\*\ —— ***Kidney Stone Diet is a SPYR Podcast _****\*\ [*More SPYR Podcasts*](http://SPYR.fm)*_*\ Starting Now / By Amara ## Chapters - 00:00:31 Using the Pomodoro Technique for Productivity - 00:03:15 Physical Movement and Creative Problem Solving - 00:07:40 Listener Question on First Stone at Age 80 - 00:10:47 Kidney Stone Recurrence Risk and Timelines - 00:12:45 24-Hour Urine Collection for Senior Patients - 00:15:45 Preventing Kidney Stone Recurrence with Diet ## Transcript 00:00:00 Jeff Sarris The following is designed to entertain and inform, not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any new treatment. Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show where we reduce your kidney stone risk and live your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:28 Jill Harris And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. ### Using the Pomodoro Technique for Productivity 00:00:31 Jeff Sarris So this week, we promise, we're doing a listener call. We won't go on any tangents. But speaking of tangent, the Pomodoro Technique I mentioned to you off air, that is something that since we came back from Miami has been super valuable for me. Some people might know about this, but It's, I've done it before. I haven't done it recently, and I forget how just how helpful it is. But it's essentially, you get an app, you can do whatever, you can set up a timer, but it's a 25-minute work period, followed by a 5-minute break. And you just, you cycle that. And it does something magical for clicking you out of, maybe, Maybe a pattern that you're in that you don't realize. So, say like if I'm like writing code or like programming or doing things like that, I can be just stuck on something and just almost wallow in that for a long period of time and just be like, "I cannot figure it out." But the magic of having a forced stop moment, so 25 minutes, And then I actually now, like we're back in Chicago, it's the winter, I get up and I just walk around the little loop in the house. 'Cause you know how there's just hallway, living room, and it's just a tiny little circle. But it gets me thinking again about different things. And I've found that I am just sort of like going for a walk around the block or whatever it is, 00:01:58 Jill Harris Oh yeah. 00:02:15 Jeff Sarris The brain's allowed to put together new connections that active thinking wasn't making. And it's so dumb, because I've done this before, like so many times. I've used it, I use an app, I think it's called Focus Keeper. It's just, it's just a timer, but it just toggles you in and out and it's like, "Hey, go." And I remember that there was I think an author or scientist or someone, 00:02:18 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:02:43 Jeff Sarris Like one of the like iconic names from like 100 years ago or something, but he would be writing before bed, and only stop mid-sentence to then go to sleep. Because he never wanted to be have his thought finished. He wanted to have to finish it the next morning, which I thought is a really interesting approach that worked for him. And it's sort of what this Pomodoro does, too, then. Is you hit that 25 minutes, and as on as you're in your head, and you're like, "When I hear that bell ding, I'm going." Whatever I'm, like I am not finishing the thing that I'm in. I found it very valuable. I just wanted to mention it. Just, I don't know. 00:02:58 Jill Harris Yeah, that's really interesting. I wonder, you know, well, the whole walking and movement, you know, somebody a couple of weeks ago said, "Boy, Jill sure moves a lot in these videos." I do. I'm a, I'm a shaking and a rolling and a rolling and a shaking, okay? ### Physical Movement and Creative Problem Solving I am. But movement helps me think. When I talk to patients, I'm walking, I'm like, "Okay, let me put this all together. Don't say nothing, Susie, just let me walk and think about it." You know? But what I'm not understanding is if I'm in my mode, why would I want to get up? What are they suggesting it does? Is it going to make it better? Am I going to, you know what I'm saying? 00:03:40 Jeff Sarris It's— 00:03:41 Jill Harris Or is it only if you're kind of stuck in something? 00:03:43 Jeff Sarris So, I find it valuable across the board for doing like any sort of thought work, I'd say. Like sort of like the stuff that we just do, just across, like whether it's programming, whether it's working with patients or whatever. 00:03:57 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:03:59 Jeff Sarris It's it's giving the brain almost a moment to relax. And I think it might be somehow tangentially connected to what happens when we sleep. Because you know when you leave a problem unsolved, There's a percentage of the time when during sleep you figure out the solution. Like, you're not trying. It's, or maybe in the shower, even. You know, you take a shower, you have all those negative ions, they just, they improve all these feelings. 00:04:26 Jill Harris Yes! 00:04:34 Jeff Sarris But then, somehow you're just like, "Oh, I got it. I didn't think about it this way, now I did." It's it's almost like a turn off or something that gets us out of our own way, I think. I don't, I don't know the mechanism. I didn't I haven't looked into it that deep. I've only used it. 00:04:48 Jill Harris Well, I'm going to try—I'm going to try it. 00:04:50 Jeff Sarris Yeah, it's it's interesting. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, then, sort of like how your experience is. But since we've been back from Miami, that's I've been doing that every day. I've been standing here, getting more activity, and just like plowing through things that have taken a lot longer. 00:05:05 Jill Harris What's the name of the app? 00:05:06 Jeff Sarris So I use Focus Keeper. That's the one I use and it's just almost like a little slice of a tomato. Because yeah, is Pomodoro a tomato? It might be, something like that. I know that there's different like tomato ones, so. 00:05:18 Jill Harris Pomodoro is tomato sauce, yeah. 00:05:20 Jeff Sarris Okay, yeah. So, yeah, it's the Pomodoro Technique. So, anyways. 00:05:23 Jill Harris All right, I'm going to give it a try because I mean there's always there's always a million different ways to focus, refocus. I mean, how many times do we sit at our desk and beat ourselves up about, you know, we don't know how we're going to how are we going to fix it, what do we, and we just, yeah, I can I get that. It's like your brain is just working in overdrive and, you know, sometimes you just need to step away, right? 00:05:45 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and it's hard if we don't have sort of someone forcing us to, at least for me. 'Cause I'll just sit there. I will be like, "I am going to figure this out." But it's just a little ding on an app, but as long as I tell myself, "No, I have to, I have to abide, follow, whatever, this little ding," 00:05:50 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:06:05 Jeff Sarris It's it's done wonders, and it seems to just always it always adds. And I do so much more in a shorter period of time. It's weird. It's it's just hard to hard to even quantify. 00:06:18 Jill Harris Well, I'm going to try it, and then, I mean, obviously, we're taping a bunch of shows today, so who knows what I'll have to say when I did, but I'm yeah, no, I listen, I mean, 00:06:23 Jeff Sarris Yeah. Down the line. 00:06:30 Jill Harris If we if we are not learning and growing constantly, I don't know what we're doing breathing. This is what life is about, always trying to figure out Everyone who is listening, all of us, Jeff and I, everybody has problems, we all have stress, we all have stuff. So, any Tricks, any anything we can talk about and bring into the podcast and discuss and try to make something better, well, that's what it's about. We're all in the same boat here. It's like everybody has stress, here's just another way, or problem-solving. This whole channel's about problem-solving your lifestyle. And if we can figure out new nifty ways to, you know, perhaps do something better, well, then I'm all for it. So, I'll definitely try it. And I, you know, as far as like the whole movement thing, yeah, I mean whenever I have particularly stress, I know I need to move. I cannot just I'm not like you. I'm not going to sit and sit there and try to figure it out. I got to move, definitely. It has to be. 00:07:29 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and it's a good habit to have. That is That's a habit I never I personally just haven't built. Like, I need that I need that prodding, I guess. 00:07:38 Jill Harris Yeah. ### Listener Question on First Stone at Age 80 00:07:40 Jeff Sarris But, yeah. So, with that, no question this week? No, no. We should we should dive into dive into the question before too long. So, this is a question from Mary. 00:07:53 Jill Harris Mary. 00:07:55 Jeff Sarris Hi, Jill. My name is Mary. I love your input, and I just wanted to ask you, I had my first stone a number of months ago, and I'm 80. I had to have surgery because it was a 14 one, and I'm doing everything you say. I eat lots of fruit and veggies. I use the salt shaker once, and I use Mrs. Dash with different things. And I try to drink a lot of water. And how likely am I going to produce more stones, when I've just had it took me 80 years to do this one? And I think I'm just going to mention that I'm 5 ft, and I weighed around 125 lb, but since I'm on this diet thing, I'm down to 111, 112 lb, and I feel good. But thank you for taking my call. Love you. Bye-bye. 00:09:17 Jill Harris Oh my God, I love Mary. As soon as I heard her voice, I'm like, "Mary, I love you. I love you, too, Mary. Thanks for calling us." So, The one thing Now, you know, I've done phone work for all these decades, so I'm not seeing people when I speak to them, so I really listen to their intonation, how they say things, their cadence, all of all of it. That's my clue on how somebody feels about what they're saying. The one thing, first of all, first of all, When you're 80 and you have a kidney stone, and that kidney stone, Mary, like you said, was very big. So, now we have an 80-year-old who has a kidney stone, and she has to have surgery. And none of you want a surgery. I don't care if you're 80 or 20. Going under is always a risk, recovery, it's awful. I've had plenty of surgeries for my cancer, so I understand. It's not It's no joke. So, the fact that she went, You know, under and had a surgery at 80 is a big deal. The one thing that struck me in her voice was she's like, "I'm drinking water." Kind of like, you know, I'm hearing things like, "I don't I think I'm drinking enough water. I'm not happy I'm drinking water." You know, there's a lot going on with when she said, "I'm drinking water." ### Kidney Stone Recurrence Risk and Timelines 00:10:47 Jill Harris "I'm drinking a lot of water." Okay. So, her question is, will she make another stone? How quickly will she make another one when it took her 80 years to make this one? Mary, you could have made this stone in your 40s. Just never passed. Could have been rattling around in there for a long time, just didn't move. So, it's not like you just made it. Most likely, It could be, though. You could have made it in the last year, but I don't know. Beside the point, though, doesn't mean I guess my point is, it doesn't mean you just made it. It could have been there for decades, it just never moved. There's plenty of people, once they are once they have passed on, If you opened up their kidneys, plenty of people have kidney stones, they didn't know, 'cause they never moved. There's plenty of cadavers with lots of stones in their kidneys, it's surprising. But if they never move, you wouldn't know. So, just to be clear, we don't know how long you had that kidney stone, but it did present when you were 80. So, how likely is it that you'll get another one? Well, research will show that typically, typically, on the average, which means there's more time that goes in between and less time, Between the first and second stone incident is about 10 to 12 years. 50% of people will get that one to the first one, and then 10 to 12 years later, 50% of people will get a second one. If you fall into that category, then the odds are you'll get another one 2 years later. That's what research shows, okay? But it could become faster, it could be longer. Could be way longer if you do the Kidney Stone Diet. So, Mary, if you follow the diet, first of all, I'm going to ask you, because we all know I'm going to, have you had a urine collection? ### 24-Hour Urine Collection for Senior Patients 00:12:45 Jill Harris I would ask to get a urine collection. I don't say that, you know, glibly, because you're 80 and the doctor may be like, "She's 80, she's probably not going to make another one." But I would get a urine collection to see, you know, why you formed that stone. So, there's that. Maybe you didn't drink enough. As we age, our sense of thirst gets lessened. And so many of my seniors will tell me, "I'm not thirsty." Well, I'm not thirsty every time I'm drinking either, folks, but we still have to drink. I notice that I have less thirst as I age. So, we still have to drink. Now, Mary also was kind enough to tell us she's only 5 ft. She weighed 125 lb. Now, after watching her sugar and salt, she's down some pounds. And Mary, there's a couple things I will tell you. I don't want you losing more weight, so pay attention to that, number one. You don't have to be so restrictive. But, typically, when you do the Kidney Stone Diet, you will lose weight because you're paying attention to added sugar and salt, all right? And, you know, your water drinking, pay attention to it. You will hear doctors generically say, "Everybody should drink 100 oz of water." Mary's a 5 ft. Where's she going to put 100 oz of water? So, Mary probably doesn't need to drink 100 oz of water, 'cause she's small. But, we say at the Kidney Stone Diet, we want to see 2.5 L coming out of you to 3 L. So, it may be, maybe I weigh 118 lb, so maybe I'm going to drink a little bit more than Mary to get that. Maybe I'll drink a little bit less if she's eating more salt than me. It's a whole It's a lot of different things. But, I like that you lost some weight, if that's what you needed to do, Mary. You know, it seems like 115 would be a good weight for you, but, you know, I'd have to talk to you, obviously, I don't know your how your bone frame is and stuff like that. If you follow the Kidney Stone Diet, Mary, you'll probably get another You will probably not get another stone for the rest of your life, okay? So, let's put it that way. If you didn't follow the Kidney Stone Diet, on average, people get their second stone about 10 years later, on average. Some people get it a lot quicker. The patients who are calling me, they got a kidney stone, two years later they got another stone, some people one year later, because they didn't do the diet changes. They didn't get a urine collection. They didn't do the diet changes, because the doctor said, " we'll wait for a second stone to get a urine collection." You know how I feel about that, people. Why would we do that? Let's get it right away, so we don't get the second stone. That makes sense to me, but who am I? And so, get the urine collection. Follow the Kidney Stone Diet. Make sure that everything's cool in your urine collection, because sometimes there's other stuff going on with you, not just salt and sugar, that can lead to a kidney stone. And that's typically high urine calcium. ### Preventing Kidney Stone Recurrence with Diet 00:15:45 Jill Harris So, you want to make sure that's all cool. But, Mary, honestly, if you follow the diet, odds are you're not going to form another stone. And part of the diet is getting those fluids in, okay? So, the chances are low unless you have another medical condition. I don't know your medical history that's predisposing you to stones. I doubt it, only because you're 80 and you haven't had any yet. But you could have other ones. Was there imaging Taken? Are there other ones? I don't know. So, there's lots I still don't know, so I'm going to be careful what I say, but you will greatly reduce your odds of getting another stone if you follow the Kidney Stone Diet. And plus, it's just a healthy diet. As you see, you already lost weight. Don't lose much more than this, my friend, okay? So make sure you're eating enough, too. Lots of times people go through such hell with the kidney stone, that they take away a lot of foods that they don't have to. So, you can email me, Mary, At jill@kidneystonediet.com and give me a little more stuff, info on you, and so I can, you know, I'll let you know what I think, okay? I just don't want you losing any more weight. God forbid, honey, you got a cold, or you got sick, and then you're losing another 5 lb with that, and then you don't have a lot of cushion to play with. So, that would be the first thing if I were talking to you on the phone. I would think about your weight, 'cause you've lost 10 lb, and I don't want you losing more, okay? If that makes sense. And just the fact that you said you're okay with it, Makes me think that you're thinking about that, too, okay? I don't know, but my Spidey senses kind of tell me that. So, I'm sorry that you made a stone that's very large. I'm super sorry you had to go through that stupid surgery. Follow the Kidney Stone Diet. If you need help with that, you know, send me an email. And, you know, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, though, to ensure that you don't have another kidney stone. I'm super proud of you for doing it, because At 80, folks, she's changing her ways. And again, people will come to me, "Well, Jill, I've been eating this way my whole life, how am I supposed to do it?" And I'm going to say, "If Mary can, so can you." So, God bless you, Mary, that you're working so hard. I'm I'm so proud of you. It takes a lot to change after all these years, so good for you. 00:18:02 Jeff Sarris Yeah, yeah, it's tough. It's never easy to change. It's it's always an uphill battle, but yeah, she's done she's done great. And yeah, having such a large stone, too, is painful, is painful emotionally and physically. And like sort of just the anguish that would go with such an experience. Yeah, we just don't want anyone to have to ever go through that if we can help it. 00:18:26 Jill Harris No. That's scary that she went through that. That's a very large stone, so thank God that she's done with that and over. Mary, get a urine collection, please. See if the doctor will order it for you. 00:18:36 Jeff Sarris Yeah. Yeah, so thanks so much, Mary, for your question. If you're out there and you have a question, the number is 773-889-8763 and we'd love to feature you on a future episode. And, again, you can dive into everything Kidney Stone Diet related at kidneystonediet.com. You can get tons of free resources, you can find the email newsletter that Jill sends out every Sunday with a little inspiration to stay on track. And, all the premium resources as well, but we appreciate each and every one of you who tune in, and comment, and, have subscribed and shared the show. It means a lot. It really helps us reach more people and we just want to help as many as we can. I think this is 128 episodes in, which is mind-boggling to me. 00:19:21 Jill Harris It's amazing. 00:19:22 Jeff Sarris Yeah, but, yeah, it's because of each and every one of you. So, we appreciate all the help. So, 00:19:27 Jill Harris It's amazing. 00:19:28 Jeff Sarris With that, I think we will wrap and we will see you next week. 00:19:32 Jill Harris Thank you, Mary, so much. Great question.