# Why Jill always recommends the Harvard Oxalate List Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/why-jill-always-recommends-the-harvard-oxalate-list/ Published: 2020-10-27 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu5HFrUiGo)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-jill-always-recommends-the-harvard-oxalate-list/id1528474326?i=1000496243893&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1o1gCFYw10gK8BLugN7RAh)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) October 27, 2020 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host In this episode of the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast Jill explains why the Harvard Oxalate List has been *the* trusted oxalate resource for decades and why the way that you use it is so important.\ \ • [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/)\ • [Kidney Stone Prevention Program](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention)\ • [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/)\ \ Find the full transcript at [BYLT.co/show/kidney-stone-diet](https://bylt.co/show/kidney-stone-diet) ## Chapters - 00:00:00 Interpreting Kidney Stone Test Results - 00:02:44 Reliability of the Harvard Oxalate List - 00:05:13 Superfood Marketing and Oxalate Content Differences - 00:07:30 Managing Daily Oxalate Limits and Calcium Intake ## Transcript ### Interpreting Kidney Stone Test Results 00:00:00 Jeff Sarris Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, a show about reducing your risk for kidney stones and living your best life. I'm your host Jeff Sarris, host and fellow student, I should say, and we're here as always with the kidney stone prevention expert, Jill Harris. Hi, Jill! 00:00:28 Jill Harris Hi Jeff! 00:00:29 Jeff Sarris So, you've had a busy day today, subscriber? Filled with calls. 00:00:31 Jill Harris I have. I've had a busy day today. You know, there's a millions of kidney stone formers in the world, so I get a lot of business, unfortunately. You know, I pay my rent, God bless. But, you know, it I'm dealing with a lot of really sick people. Not only sick people, but all the anxiety they have to deal with because most of the time these stones came along so suddenly and it turns your world upside down. So, I have a lot of, especially being a cancer patient, one day you just get diagnosed with something and so I have a lot of empathy for that. It's a, it's a terrible disease. So, I'm happy to be able to help. 00:01:09 Jeff Sarris Oh yeah, for sure. And then lots of lots of one-on-one calls, lots of like coaching people along. 00:01:14 Jill Harris Yes, and the latest thing I have, which I'm so excited about is just a short, little, tiny call that's really inexpensive and it helps you understand your test results, so you can have really good conversations with your doctor. So, going over a 24-hour urine collection, it's really patients are loving that service. So, I'm really excited about that one. Getting a better doctor office visit, no matter what disease you have, is imperative to getting on the right treatment plan so you can stop the disease process, hopefully in most cases. So, yeah, I'm really excited about that. 00:01:50 Jeff Sarris Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's dive into today's topic. We're talking about the, about oxalate and the Harvard oxalate list. So, why is it that we focus on the Harvard oxalate list when there's a lot of other information that's out there on the web? 00:02:08 Jill Harris Okay, so this is a really great question. I get a lot of people in the background asking me about this. "Why, Jill, about that Harvard list? First of all, it's so damn old I could cry." Yes, it is. And because of that, we don't have recent studies. Harvard is not studying like pomegranates, or you know, other things that people may be really getting into right now. So, we don't have a lot of good data on recent popular foods. But here's the deal, and there's always something I'm going to say about something. Here's the deal. ### Reliability of the Harvard Oxalate List 00:02:44 Jill Harris It's not so much, so we use, people in the industry, the stone industry, Dr. Coe uses it, I use it, there's a lot of doctors that use the Harvard list. And although people may say it's outdated or antiquated, it's really not so much the list, it's how you use that list. And here's, here: The Harvard list is something I have used for over two decades. Dr. Coe's been using it since, you know, the inception of the Harvard list. So, we know based upon follow-up 24-hour urine collections that it works, okay? So, we trust the data from those scientists who studied oxalate. So, we trust that list. But way more than the list, way more than this list, it's about incorporating all the aspects of the Kidney Stone Diet. So, why my patients are so successful in combating stones, it ain't because I'm the Tooth Fairy, people, they work their tush off and they put all the aspects of the Kidney Stone Diet into place. And this is why it can be a little complicated and overwhelming and you may need some help doing that. That's why I'm here on the Earth, besides being a mother. So, that's the deal. It's how do you use that list. I have great free resources on my on the kidneystonediet.com page and you'll have a whole food oxalate food list. But more than the list is how do you use it. That's really important. You have to get enough calcium. You have to stay away from the highest oxalate foods, which is, by the way, a very short, tiny list. By the time people get to me, they've taken away all kinds of oxalate foods that they can absolutely have. So, the Harvard list is one that we trust. The researchers are bar none who did it. And we've used it for many, many years, and our success rate with lowering people's oxalate in their urine is extremely high. So, that's why we keep talking about that list, and that's why we use it in our daily practice with patients. So. 00:04:55 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and I think we've talked about it in the past, just privately, but it's expensive to do these actual thorough tests, and that's probably why there aren't a lot of other a lot of other really rigorous scientific tests of all like newer foods like you mentioned, pomegranates and things. ### Superfood Marketing and Oxalate Content Differences 00:05:13 Jill Harris Yeah, so people are like, and these foods aren't new, right? It's just that they're becoming in vogue, or they're sexy to eat, all of a sudden, they're freaking superfoods, which, again, I'm going to remind you guys, cuz if you only maybe watch one of these videos out of the hundreds we'll make, listen to what I'm saying here: You go into the grocery store, every one of those fruits and vegetables has a little cape on it. They're all superfoods. Don't buy into the marketing bulldoo that you know, apricots, beautiful this season, as it wasn't last season, and it's going to change next season. So, don't buy into that. Fruits and vegetables are healthy. You need to eat a lot of them, okay? And get rid of the other junk you're eating. It's very important. The other thing is why do all the different lists, and you may want to hit this in another video, I don't know, why do all the different lists, why are they different, right? Why are oxalate levels on one list low and the next list you look at it's going to be high? First of all, realize how high is high. Because if you get 100 milligrams a day of oxalate, some of you will have different amounts, talk to your doctor, but most people are safely allowed to have 100 milligrams a day, very safely allowed. And so, you know, Harvard may list avocado as high, but if you re-look at, if you're getting 100 milligrams a day and a whole medium avocado is only 19 milligrams of oxalate, that ain't high, people. So, based upon the Harvard list, I came up with what I call the safe list. I know, you're like, "another damn list." Gotcha. But this is really important because when people, by the time they get to me, they're eating hay and nothing else. So, it's very important. My job is to actually, guess what? I'm going to bring foods back into your life cuz now you're limiting too many foods. And so, the deal is this: I made the safe list and it takes away all the adjectives, so you never have to read high, low, medium again. You will just base how much oxalate you're having in the portion size listed and go from there, okay? This way, my dog is snoring. Luke! Luke, shh! Like an old man I live with. I finally live alone in my life, and I got a dog that doesn't stop snoring. Okay. ### Managing Daily Oxalate Limits and Calcium Intake 00:07:30 Jill Harris So, that's really important, too. If I'm giving you a debit card of 100 milligrams of oxalate, and that's in your bank account, make sure that, you know, if you do have something like an avocado that Harvard says is high, it's only 19 milligrams. You put it in, you take out 19, you still got a lot more. So, most of my patients, once they work with me, and they realize actually what the Kidney Stone Diet is, and it's a lot more than lowering your oxalate, they realize that is the least of the problem, actually. It's the calcium they're not getting enough of. There's too much sugar and salt. That's what they're not doing. They're not drinking enough, or a combination of all of those things. And that's where the real work begins, trying to figure out exactly what it is based upon a 24-hour urine collection, and then going from there. 00:08:18 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and we've dove into oxalate on another episode as well, so anyone who maybe just came into this episode as their as the first one they're seeing or listening to, be sure to go back and check out our oxalate episode. I think it was I think it was maybe a few weeks ago, but yeah, there's it's there's an never-ending topic, just kidney stones, kidney stone prevention, just in general. So, trying to give you bite-sized, little bits of information to sort of keep you on pace week after week. So, I think that's good for this week for Harvard Oxalate and dive a little more into oxalate itself. If you're enjoying this episode and this podcast, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen, and also on YouTube, the Kidney Stone Diet. And, of course, be sure to check out kidneystonediet.com, which is where you can find Jill, you can find all the resources, you can find the oxalate list, the safe oxalate list, and many other things that we have on there right now. So, and there's some new stuff coming soon that we'll probably talk about in the, I don't know, in a few episodes or so. It's pretty exciting. 00:09:23 Jill Harris Yeah, it's an exciting time in the Kidney Stone Diet world! Very exciting! Yep. 00:09:28 Jeff Sarris Yeah, just trying to help as many people as we can and just get the word out there. 00:09:32 Jill Harris Yes. 00:09:33 Jeff Sarris So, yeah. Thanks again, Jill. We'll call it a wrap for this week and we'll see you next time. 00:09:36 Jill Harris Okay, see ya. Bye!