# What is the best prevention for kidney stones? Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/what-is-the-best-prevention-for-kidney-stones/ Published: 2022-10-18 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRt8nRisFhI)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-is-the-best-prevention-for-kidney-stones/id1528474326?i=1000583034003&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6OPNWnTETtwW1eJL0rLeqk)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) October 18, 2022 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill answers a listener question about 24 hour urine collection, availability of the test in different parts of the world, and what to do when you don’t have access. Have a question? Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763.\  \  **= Stop your kidney stones once and for all =**\ • [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/)\ • [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/)\ • [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **= FREE Kidney Stone Resources =**\ • [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/)\ • [Free Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/)\ • [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) Find more episodes of the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast at [kidneystonediet.com/podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) **= Who is Jill Harris? =**\ [youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet](https://www.youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet) Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com/), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. **= Who is Jeff Sarris? =**\ [youtube.com/jeffsarris](https://youtube.com/jeffsarris) Jeff’s co-founder of [SPYR](https://spyr.me/), a branding agency based out of Chicago, where he and his business partner Dave help awesome people like Jill create online platforms that make an impact. He’s also a certified health coach, host of the [Starting Now podcast](http://spyr.fm/now), and developing NFTs and community at [Badfroot](https://badfroot.com/). Reach out on Twitter! [@jeffSARRIS](https://twitter.com/jeffSARRIS) ## Chapters - 00:00:13 Approachable Communication in Medical Education - 00:03:58 Making Complex Health Research Accessible - 00:08:06 Availability of Urine Collections in Japan - 00:11:08 Global Variations in Stone Prevention Testing - 00:13:54 Key Metrics Measured in Urine Collections - 00:17:05 Identifying High Urine Calcium and Bone Loss - 00:20:39 Idiopathic Hypercalciuria and Genetic Stone Risk - 00:23:36 Risks of Taking Unchecked Citrate Supplements - 00:25:09 Patient Advocacy in Requesting Medical Tests ## Transcript 00:00:00 [Music] ### Approachable Communication in Medical Education 00:00:13 Jeff Sarris Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:20 Jill Harris And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. And I swear to God, I know I'm immature. I don't care. I can just be so serious so long, okay? So, So, when we're shooting the beginning, and I look at you and I have to be quiet, it brings me back to when I was like in junior high and we'd be in study hall, me and my best friend, and they'd be like, "No talking." And, of course, whenever you're not supposed to talk, I want to talk more. I was the one that was always separated. "Jill! Jill! Move to the other table!" So, whenever we're supposed to be quiet, I go right back to junior high. I'm not saying I'm proud of it, but that's just what I'm doing. Every show, at the beginning, 00:01:03 Jeff Sarris You have to have fun! I know, I see your face sometimes! 00:01:08 Jill Harris I get but I'm so happy to be here, first of all, and talk about this stuff and get the word out. There was also Somebody wrote me and they're like, "You should be…" You know, "Please…" So, people don't think I answer my own email. They assume somebody else is doing it. No, I'm answering hundreds of them a day. Thank you very much, people. But, so she said, "Somebody should tell Jill, it's very important That she really doesn't use, you know, her grammar is terrible. And I don't understand if she thinks that we're dumb, or what, but somebody needs to talk to her about it." So, I wrote, "Dear Sissy." I'm sure she was like, "Oh, shit, Jill writes her own email." "Dear Sissy," whatever her name was, "I think my audience is extremely smart, so I know they know that it's just my flair on things. I know that people don't say 'ain't' and that kind of stuff. I couldn't be where I am today if I didn't understand that. But I like to have fun because I'm talking about the same thing for 5,000 years. So, I need to spice it up for you and for me." So, I just I never want anyone here to feel like I'm, you know, I'm "Jeff, why are you talking about this?" Because this is important. I want people to understand that I know how smart you are. So, the way I give information is very different from many nurses you may know or anybody on YouTube. That's That's just my style. It's who I am. I have fun with it. Please know that I would never It has nothing to do with you, Meaning that in the nicest way. I know you guys understand me. You're way too smart not to. So, I wanted to clarify that. Because if one person thinks something, many might. And I just want to make sure people know it. It's just I'm just goofy. Right? 00:02:59 Jeff Sarris Well, and this is the thing, too. This is This is why the entire Kidney Stone Diet platform is so different, because this isn't meant to be sterile doctor-speak. It's all based in science, but like this show, we want it to be entertaining. We want people to have fun and be like, "Look how silly Jill is." Like, "Look how much, just fun and how entertaining all of it is," because Otherwise, like, you can You could read research papers and things, and like, we don't we don't absorb that. Like, we absorb the things that we enjoy and we find entertaining. So, I think that's actually, like, I think that's a great point to bring up. Just so, yeah, people know, because I think a lot of people get it. But definitely, I would assume brand new people could very easily be like, "Oh, like, how professional is this? Like, how much experience is here?" when the experience is through the roof. 00:03:52 Jill Harris Right. 00:03:53 Jeff Sarris And we don't always talk about that, but 20 24 years of experience dealing with this already. ### Making Complex Health Research Accessible 00:03:58 Jill Harris Yeah. And also, and some people, and this is all over YouTube, and I'm guilty of this, too. When I'm watching something on YouTube, I'm like, "Okay, tick-tock. You said you were going to talk about bip-bip, and you haven't, and it's now seven minutes in." People, it's a show, okay? We eventually get to it. Just keep fast-forwarding then until you get to your answer. You can do that, too. People get very mad. I do, too, sometimes, When I'm watching something. But I know just to fast-forward, and I certainly, you know I mean, it's okay. Have fun with it, people. Enjoy. Absorb it all in. And if you don't like the style, that's okay, too. You can go find somebody else that does it differently. I mean, please, of course, please do that. But anyway, 00:04:42 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and just real quick on that, just because you said like sometimes it can be irritating because a lot of times there's the empty promise. It's like, "Watch this for this," and you watch 99% of it, and then they're just like, "Oh yeah, it's a yes," and it's over. It's like, "How did you hook me in for 6 minutes to see nothing?" But that's the one thing we will always promise that there will be the payoff in the episode. We're not just There's no clickbait. We're not just trying to get you to click through, but we have these preambles. We have this We're also friends. Like, we're friends, business partners, so we just have time just hanging out that this is a good excuse also to talk a lot more, which is really nice. 00:05:22 Jill Harris I mean, it really is. So, basically, what we're saying, people, is we're doing the show for the two of us, and you're along for the ride, people! No, we want to We want to create a chummy atmosphere, a warm atmosphere, an inviting atmosphere, an atmosphere that's not intimidating. When I was going through all my doctor appointments with all my cancer, it's intimidating talking to these really, you know, it's Doctors sometimes, and nurses, too, don't know how to bring it on down home so we can understand. And as patients, and as a patient, I was really scared. And so, you may say, "Well, you're a nurse." Yeah, but I do kidney stones. I don't do cancer. And now I'm the one with cancer. And so, it's really intimidating and you do want people to talk to you like a girlfriend, like a boyfriend. I mean, we you want some kind of at least, I do. I don't know, and you guys in the audience, you can tell us. "Does this make sense to you?" Because I joke that it's for Jeff and I, but it is for all of you and this is why we do this. Otherwise, Jeff and I would just get on the phone or text a funny meme to each other. We're doing this for you as a service. So, we hope you like our style. We're not going to change it. So, I mean, you can say you don't like it. It won't change. But we hope you do like it, and we hope you get it. What we're trying to do here, create an environment that it is an easy way to talk to us, to ask questions, to understand instead of just being pelted with research. If you want that, my mentor Dr. Fred Coe, C-O-E, oh my god, a plethora of information at kidney-stone.uchicago.edu. All the things that we are trying to do and talk about here on our platform is based upon all the science on his platform. So, go there. He spends so much of his free time writing for you. The heavy duty science-based research that we're not going to talk about here because we lose a lot of people when we do. You'll also find me on his website With certain articles, too. So, I'm there as well. But that's I just, you know, you could say, "Well, you've already done over 100 episodes. Why are you explaining it now?" Well, it just didn't come up until now. So, I want to I want you to understand what we're trying to create here. Like I said, I think everyone here is pretty darn brilliant, so you get the feel of what's going on. But like I said, if one person says something, other people may be thinking it, and I just wanted to address it. So, I'm good. 00:07:56 Jeff Sarris Yeah. And I mean, I think that brings us right perfectly to our question because this is an extremely important one. Let's fire it up. ### Availability of Urine Collections in Japan 00:08:06 Jill Harris Hi, Jeff. Hi, Jill. I've called before. I just want to give you a brief back story. I'm an American living in Japan and I have a long history of calcium oxalate stones, goes back into my family several generations. I even had a stone lasered out of me a couple of years ago, which was not fun. And living in Japan, sometimes it's very difficult to get some medical help and have questions answered for you. So recently, I went to my urologist and I asked him, "Hey, in America they're doing this kind of 24-hour urine collection, and can I get one?" And I was very surprised when my urologist told me, "No, that's really not a thing here. We don't do that." And so I checked with some other urologists here in Japan, and surprisingly they said, "Yeah, we don't really do that test. It's inconclusive and it doesn't really work that well. And if you want any solid tests, you know, you need to go back to the hospital and get those." So my question is, what exactly does a 24-hour urine 00:08:29 Jeff Sarris And living in Japan sometimes it's very difficult to get some medical help and have questions answered for you. So, recently I went to my urologist and I asked him, "Hey, in America, they're doing this kind of 24-hour urine collection, and can I get one?" And I was very surprised when my urologist told me, "No, that's really not a thing here. We don't do that." And so, I checked with some other urologists here in Japan, and surprisingly said, "Yeah, we don't really do that test, inconclusive, and it doesn't really work that well. And if you want any solid tests, you know, you need to go back to the hospital and get those." So, my question is, what exactly does a 24-hour urine collection do? I mean, what exactly are the doctors looking for? Does that really apply to every kind of stone, or just some specific stones? Also, if I can't get a 24-hour urine collection sort of study, so what should I is there something else I can go to the hospital and request, and say, "Hey, give me this test, or that test." And also, if I follow the kidney stone diet, which I have been doing regularly and very religiously, do I really need to get a 24-hour urine collection, or is this probably just something in my DNA that I'm going to have to live with, and there's not really another issue? Thanks for answering my question. 00:10:11 Jill Harris I remember him because he asked he did ask some questions before about soy sauce and all the salt, and why is there I believe it was him who was like, you know, "Why don't a lot of Asians get, You know, kidney stones?" right? Okay, he did not say his name, unfortunately, and I do like addressing people by name. A friggin' beautiful question, so much to unpack here. People in the audience are like, "Oh, shit. Get a pillow and a blanket." 00:10:39 Jeff Sarris No, but this is an important one, especially having regional differences, this is this I mean, it's a big question. As soon as he brought it up, I was like, ". Well, that is interesting." 00:10:51 Jill Harris Wonderful. Wonderful. So, I'm going to try to remember all the things I typically write it down. So, for a synopsis, he's living in Japan. I have a lot of international patients, by the way. ### Global Variations in Stone Prevention Testing 00:11:08 Jill Harris There are some there are some countries that will do urine collections. Many do not. Many do not. In England, they have a You can't get them there. There's a couple countries that do them, so when I'm coaching people over across seas where I'm just They're telling me what their diet is. Some people come in the States to get a urine collection, but let's talk about Let's talk about a few things. What are doctors looking for? Why, and so why are these doctors saying, " we don't really do them here"? Well, There's probably no lab that does them. Also, if there's not a need because Asians don't get They're not prevalent stone makers. Ain't nobody going to make money off 24-hour urine collections in Asia. So, we've got to remember everything's a business, as well. What are doctors looking for? We are looking for Not I'm not a doctor. I'm a nurse. They're looking So, a doctor should order a 24-hour urine collection. Many do not. Many will say, "Let's wait for the second stone." And why? That's like saying, "Let's wait for your blood pressure to get even higher." Why are we doing this? Why are we waiting for a medical condition to get worse? If you have a kidney stone, people, knock, knock. Tell your doctor you want a 24-hour urine collection. " you don't need one." Yes, I do, Doctor. I want a 24-hour urine collection because I want to do everything I can to prevent another kidney stone. When you say that, you typically get it. Okay? Now, we've got to recognize, and I've said this before, these men and women are surgeons. That's what they went to school to do. A lot of years. My experience shows me and tells me, these surgeons, they do a damn good job, overall, getting kidney stones out. That's their job, along with other things. They're not just doing kidney stones. " they just want to make money, Jill. That's why they're not talking about prevention." They have no time to tell you how to do a low salt diet. They are running from follow-up to follow-up after all these surgeries, okay? And then, they're in surgery 3 days a week. So, there That's That's not That's not the case. They're not telling you about prevention so they can make money off of you. That's not They make plenty of money, promise. The other thing is they don't know how to tell you about dietary changes. They're They're They didn't go to school for that, so they're surgeons. So, a lot of them may not think to order the urine collection. Some of them don't know how to really read the urine collections and tell you what to do with them after they get it. So, if you have a doctor that does order urine collections ### Key Metrics Measured in Urine Collections 00:13:54 Jill Harris And they do know how to read the urine collection, here's the things they're looking for: How much water is the patient drinking? What's their sodium like? What's their citrate level like? How is their 24-hour pH? What is their calcium number telling us? What is their potassium number? What is their supersaturations? Take the Kidney Stone Prevention Course. It's $40 off right now. You'll learn about all this. What are the supersaturations For uric acid, for calcium phosphate, for calcium oxalate. Supersaturations is a very complicated thing, but like, there's certain people, there's certain testing companies like Litholink that will do supersaturations. Those are very important. Those are the driving Those numbers are the driving force of stone formation, and they're going to tell the doctor how saturated your urine is with each crystal type, Which will tell the doctor what your propensity is for each stone type on that day. So, again, this is complicated. I'm not going to bore all of you with the details of it, but also I have the urine analysis by that service. I'll tell you exactly what your urine collection is about and then your numbers, so you can have an educated visit with your doctor. And I will put in here that I tell you about my services Because they will be valuable to you, and you will get the best possible outcome. But you need to understand your lab results, too. Many times, you go to the doctor's office, they don't tell you a lot about your lab results for many different reasons. I can, Because my mentor is Dr. Coe, and then you can have a really great doctor office visit, okay? That's a promise. So, the doctors are looking for all these values from the 24-hour urine collection, Okay? And that is going to tell the doctor why you're making stones, so it's incredibly important. So, my friend says, "But, Jill, I'm already doing the kidney stone diet, so why do I need it?" Let me tell you why. This is what's so very important about doing the urine collection. So very important. A couple things: what we think we're doing and what we're really doing can totally be two different things. "Jill, I don't eat no salt." I go over their urine collection, 8,702 mg of sodium that day. They don't realize that it's the food they're eating, not just not using the salt shaker. Super important. The other thing, the most People do the same thing with water. "I'm not I'm drinking plenty, like a fish." It's a liter, I see here, so not so much. But, here's why they think that. They have increased their water from zero to, you know, 500 mL now, so they are drinking a lot for them. Again, you've got to talk to people. When somebody says it's a lot, it ain't a lot for me, okay? So, you got to talk to people. There's that. The most important thing: calcium. Now, ### Identifying High Urine Calcium and Bone Loss 00:17:05 Jill Harris Dear listener, dear question caller, question person, you said you have a family history, so you do have a propensity to make kidney stones. I would want a 24-hour urine collection on you, because if that's the case, it could be you have high urine calcium despite doing the kidney stone diet. And this happens. In that case, you may need Goes down a whole tree. Again, complicated. I make things seem funny and adorable, but complicated. If somebody has a high urine calcium, and a 24-hour urine collection is the only thing that's going to tell you that, don't talk to me about blood. I'm not talking about that. Talking about "My blood calcium is normal." Urine's different. If you have high urine calcium, you're only going to know if you do a 24-hour urine collection. And if that's the case, it could be for many different reasons. One of them could be, even though you're eating like a nun, could be your vitamin D is out of whack. Could be your parathyroid is out of whack. Could be family history, And now you need a medication. It's not just for stones. You'll need it because you're losing bone from your skeleton, which could lead to osteopenia And or osteoporosis. So, that urine collection is important for all stones, All stones. It's a must. An absolute must. If a doctor's telling you it's not, push back. I never say as a nurse or as a person a doctor is wrong. That's not my place, and plus I have a nursing license to protect. But I will say as a patient myself, push back. You need it. Many doctors will tell me, "Jill, they don't want to change their diet." And they're not being harsh. Most people don't. That's why there's millions of kidney stone formers, because most people I'd be rich! I'd be done with work years ago if everybody was calling me. Not the case. People call me when their incident was so bad, they are ready to change their diet, okay? So, the urologists are not wrong in that. Nobody changes their diet. "Well, I'm not going to go with 'nobody,' dear doctor, because there are people. There are people that do, because I talk to them every day." So, you That's why I tell you guys, tell the doctor, "I'm going to do whatever, whatever. I never want to go through that again." When you say these key things I ask you to say, you'll get what you want. The other thing is A lot of them don't know what to do with the results once they get them. They just don't, because they're not they're not teaching dietary changes, all right? So, that's really important. It's nothing against them. Again, they're surgeons. A lot do, though, people. So, if you have questions, ask them. Lots of times, you don't know what you don't know, that's why I say get the urine consult with me, so I can teach you all the stuff to ask at those appointments, so you make them a lot better. And I made that service because when I was going through my cancer stuff as a patient, I didn't know what I didn't know until I got back home, and I started googling stuff, and I'm like, "Oh, I should have asked this, this, and this." You go on the portal, ain't nobody answering you for days, and you're sitting there freaking out. So, I understand as a patient, more so than a stupid kidney stone nurse. So, that urine collection is very important, especially because you told us you have a family history. ### Idiopathic Hypercalciuria and Genetic Stone Risk 00:20:39 Jill Harris If everything is ruled out with high urine calcium, say he says, "My vitamin D is fine, Jill, my blood calcium is fine," because if it was high, it would he would need a parathyroid hormone check, which would be another blood test. So, if all this stuff is fine and he's doing the kidney stone diet, and he really has lowered his salt, added sugar, getting enough water, all the things, and his calcium is still high, it is at that point a doctor will say you have idiopathic hypercalciuria, which is a big fancy name that means he has hypercalciuria, hyper: too much; cal: calcium; in the urine: uria. Idiopathic meaning we've ruled everything else out, this has to be genetics now. And if he is diagnosed with IH, it's about 50% of his blood relatives that will also have it, which will put him and his blood relatives At a higher risk for bone disease and kidney stone disease. And again, wherever there's a stone clinic, a bone clinic is close by because of this calcium aspect. So, you see I get very serious about this and very passionate about it, because I see this every day. Every day. And although you all want to ask about oxalate, this is kidney stone disease is so much about calcium. So, it's very, very important. And this little blurb of education is going to show you just and this is a nugget, just how complicated this all is. If it wasn't complicated, nobody would make stones. So, not only does somebody need to interpret the urine collection results well, Really well. And not only The urine collection results, too, depending upon which lab you use, everybody has different ref- reference ranges. "Oh, your citrate can be between as long as it's over 300." It should be over 550 for women and over 450 for men. "Oh, as long as your sodium's between 100 and 700," that's ridiculous. So, you also need somebody who knows. So, patients will come to me and say, "Well, my doctor says I'm in the reference range." 8,000 mg of sodium is not in the reference range, but they'll They're going by what the laboratory said as a reference range, so they think that's good enough, right? So, again, guys, so I know where it should be, because I understand the research and where we really want kidney stone formers to be. The lab could have just had generic reference ranges, not even for stone formers. So, again, Again, there's just so much that goes into this. And if I talk like this all the time, I'd get really bored with myself. So, let's get back to business. His question was great, okay? So, there's a reason why even though he's following the kidney stone diet, and that was the brilliant part of your question. Brilliant. Even though he's following the kidney stone diet, why should he have to do the stupid urine collection? ### Risks of Taking Unchecked Citrate Supplements 00:23:36 Jill Harris Because of what I just said, the urine calcium. And because of certain things like Here's another great example. "Well, my doctor didn't do a urine collection, but he put me on you know, lemonade or LithoLyte or MoonStone or potassium citrate." Why? You don't even have any You don't even have any results to put you on something like that. And your results may, if you did the urine collection, may say, "Oh, my God, you have this, and now that is going to increase it, and we don't want that increase." Think about your pH, that's what I'm talking about. Anyway, it's way too complicated for one little video. Buy the urine collection consult, guys, if you have if you have questions about urine collections. They're complicated. But for this guy, a brilliant question. So, there you must do a urine collection. You must. You must. That's how you're going to find out what's going on. You need a metabolic workup Of your urine to find out why you're forming stones. You must, people. I'm adamant about it. Dr. Coe, adamant about it. Any good any guy or girl on their top of their game urologist, first thing they're going to say, "You got to get a urine collection." And if yours doesn't, people, doesn't mean they're bad, it just means they don't know, or they're they're telling you what I already told you, they're telling me what I told you, "Right, people don't change," blah, blah, blah. So, push back. ### Patient Advocacy in Requesting Medical Tests 00:25:09 Jill Harris In this day of medicine, the way everything's so kind of backed up and everything, please be your own advocate. This is also what we're trying to teach you in this channel. You must be your own advocate. It is up to you to get educated, so then you can ask for what you need at your doctor's appointment for better health. There. Did I miss anything? I think I think that's it. So, oh, and so in Japan, I you're not going to be able to get them. I doubt there is a lab that does it, and the hospitals, they may not even know what you're talking about, either. It's not a thing there, because it's probably not prevalent enough for it to be a thing. But many places abroad do not do urine collections. 00:25:52 Jeff Sarris Do you Do you know, is there any like independent way that you can do that away from a doctor? 00:25:59 Jill Harris No, because of insurance and shipping, because there's a you the urine has to be shipped, and so it expires. Bacteria starts growing into it over a certain amount of time, so that's what happens. There are people that also have like, you know, family in the States, so they'll come for a week or whatever and do their urine collection and send it, but you know, it's it's just tough. And I do deal with people all across the world that they just don't have access to it, and so we still tweak their diet, of course, but it's a lot harder, and I always tell them, see if you I like I said, this is a lot for this video. I could talk hours about urine collections. The bottom line is you must get one in order to prevent kidney stones, you must. I'm I'm just that adamant about it, and any and Dr. Coe is, as well. And it's not just us, there's many people, research, 24-hour urine collections, PubMed, NIH, it will tell you, okay? It's not It's not obscure, people. 00:26:59 Jeff Sarris Yeah. Well, I think I mean, that is a wonderful question, and I didn't realize also that it's not accessible everywhere, so that is It's almost a reverse medical tourism, where people would leave the States to go to get procedures elsewhere because it's cheaper, but it's interesting then that this is one that It's not even a procedure, but a test that you can't get everywhere, so that yeah, I feel for people going through that because that is challenging on top of everything else then. 00:27:28 Jill Harris Yes. 00:27:29 Jeff Sarris But yeah, very good to know, very helpful. So, yeah, thank you so much for that question. 00:27:33 Jill Harris It's a wonderful question, and he always, and I wish I wish he left his name, he always asks really just brilliant questions. They're thoughtful, and they're pertinent, and they're awesome. But everybody that leaves a voicemail, we really love hearing from you guys, because this show is for you. So, please call us, don't be shy. Nobody's shy here, we're all family, and leave the question. There's no silly question, I whatever you'd like to know. If it's about weight loss, we'll do that, too, about living your best life, whatever we can help you with, we're here, and we love it, and we're thrilled, and we feel privileged that you do call us. It's like it's it's amazing. So, thank you for being part of this community, and thank you so much, our dear American expatriate. 00:28:18 Jeff Sarris Yeah, and that number is 773-789-8763, so we would love to hear from you. But I think with that, we will we will wrap. And if you want more, head over to kidneystonediet.com where you can find the weekly newsletter, the free newsletter, the prevention course, the prevention community on Facebook, just everything in one easily accessible place. Yeah, meal plans. 00:28:41 Jill Harris Meal plans. 00:28:42 Jeff Sarris Everything under the sun, Kidney Stone Diet, so again, that's kidneystonediet.com, and thank you again for tuning in. Leave a comment below. What was Did you have a question for this one? Did we start off with a question? No, I don't think we did. 00:28:56 Jill Harris I don't think we did, but I well, I always have something to ask them to write about, right? I mean, guys, how many of you have had a hard time getting a 24-hour urine collection ordered? And how did you get it? Did you yell? Tell us about your story about getting a 24-hour urine collection, please, because I want to know, and I can help prompt you on what to say in the appointment in the comments. I'll write you back. 00:29:22 Jeff Sarris Yeah. So, thanks again, everyone, and we will see you next week. 00:29:26 Jill Harris Bye, guys. Thanks for that question. So awesome.