# How do I break up my kidney stone? Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/how-do-i-break-up-my-kidney-stone/ Published: 2023-03-14 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF8qUKQnQMs)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-do-i-break-up-my-kidney-stone/id1528474326?i=1000604138458&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7r03rl4fh74WLuOzzIOdjq)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) March 14, 2023 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill answers a listener question about breaking up kidney stones. This podcast is designed to entertain and inform — not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment. **HAVE A QUESTION? _**\ Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763. \ **SUPPORT THE SHOW _** - [Join the Patreon](https://patreon.com/kidneystonediet) - Rate Kidney Stone Diet on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kidney-stone-diet/id1528474326) or [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5O9BXOJUFnnT6JSgfxramx?si=T6lIOozgTUO8K6MobpVWsQ) - **BUY JILL’S FAVORITE PRODUCTS _** - [Silk Coconut Milk, Unsweetened](https://amzn.to/3jUd9x8) - [Good Karma Non Dairy Unsweetened Flaxmilk](https://amzn.to/3vQZN7J) - [Ripple Unsweetened Pea Milk](https://amzn.to/3GOP7wB) - [Oatly Unsweetened Oat Milk](https://amzn.to/3Gvjwi2) - [Healthy ‘N Fit 100% Egg Protein](https://amzn.to/3lgfXWb) - [Fairlife Core Power Elite High Protein Shake, Vanilla](https://amzn.to/3jlVKNV) - [Hydroflask](https://amzn.to/3CAD2bU) **WORK WITH JILL _** - [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention) - [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/) - [Safe Snacks and Desserts Ebook](https://kidneystonediet.com/ebook/) - [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/) - [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **KIDNEY STONE RESOURCES _** - [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/) - [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) - [Meat Protein Calculator](https://kidneystonediet.com/protein/) - [Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) \ **WHO IS JILL HARRIS? _**\ Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com/), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. *Some of the links above may be affiliate links which means that we earn a small commission from qualifying purchases at no additional cost to you. Thanks for your support!\*\ —— ***Kidney Stone Diet is a SPYR Podcast _****\*\ [*More SPYR Podcasts*](http://spyr.fm/)*_*\ Starting Now / By Amara ## Chapters - 00:00:00 Coping With Loss and Healing Over Time - 00:03:13 Managing Expectations for Lifestyle Diet Changes - 00:06:21 Mindset Shifts and Living in the Present - 00:08:21 Breaking Up Calcium Oxalate vs Uric Acid Stones - 00:11:21 Debunking Home Remedies for Passing Stones - 00:13:45 Apple Cider Vinegar and Chanca Piedra Efficacy - 00:16:04 Science-Based Prevention and Urine Testing - 00:17:30 Vulnerability to Miracle Cures and Superfoods - 00:21:16 Evaluating Health Claims and Oxalate Toxicity Myths - 00:24:02 Empathy and Patient Perspectives in Healthcare ## Transcript ### Coping With Loss and Healing Over Time 00:00:00 Jeff Sarris The following is designed to entertain and inform, not provide medical advice. Always consult your doctor before starting any treatment. Aspire. Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:28 Jill Harris And I'm Finn, your Kidney Stone Prevention Mascot. Hi, Finn. Oh! He's such a good boy. 00:00:36 Jeff Sarris Yeah, on the actual show, this is the first time he's made an appearance. He's always He's always just hanging out and so quiet and keeping to himself. 00:00:44 Jill Harris He's like He's bored to tears. He's like, "I had to get the mama that talks about freaking kidney stones all day long. Jeez!" That's what he's thinking. Something about freaking oxalates. 00:00:58 Jeff Sarris But yeah, he's like He's just so quiet, he's not like causing a ruckus, it seems like much at all. 00:01:03 Jill Harris No, but believe me, when he wants attention, he'll cause He attention barks, and so, but he's gotten so much better, because in March 1st, he'll be one year. 00:01:13 Jeff Sarris Wow, yeah, already. Time goes so fast. 00:01:16 Jill Harris Remember? Remember how upset I was about Luke? Oh, my god, Jeff! You just think your heart is never going to ever going to be okay. Whenever we lose a pet or a person, I mean, oh, my god, when we break up or get a divorce, whatever we're going through something. People are like, "Oh, Jesus. Can you just get to kidney stones? Freaking life lessons by Jill." But it's true, people, whenever you lose something, whether it's a relationship or it's love or a death, whatever, it's like you just think you're never going to heal. And then, time goes by, because time does heal, and then, you just get better. But it's interesting, because I see Luke. Luke is Many of my patients drew pictures of Luke. He's in the background in a couple different things. And he's all over the apartment, and I just, you know, when I get a little glimpse of him, my heart still aches, and it will always, obviously. It's just so interesting that people and pets, to me, just they come at points in our lives that they just needed to be there. And even if we don't keep the same relationship, or we don't, or our pets die, or somebody dies, whatever, I always look back on it, like, "Damn, it was That was just That person or that pet was perfect for that time." It's very interesting. That's how I see it. And, either, even if it was good or bad or indifferent, it doesn't matter. Maybe I had a lesson to learn or whatever. It's just so interesting. You know, that's all I have to say about that. 00:02:45 Jeff Sarris Yeah, because it's easy to look back with, regret or sadness. But, if we if we look more at the moment where we are right now and what led us to here and what's how we're moving forward. Like, every little bit changes us in some way, And I'd say mostly, if you look at it that way, for the positive. You can find so many positives in all these experiences, especially when it comes to pets, and family, and, and just people in your life. ### Managing Expectations for Lifestyle Diet Changes 00:03:13 Jill Harris Yes, I'm always like when we talk about this in the course in our accountability groups, it's like, you know, we're we're always talking about needy things like this. And it's just, you know, People come to me and they want to, "Oh, this is so hard." And I'm very honest. Changing, no matter what you're trying to change, it's a hard process. You've first got to learn the process. It doesn't happen overnight. Understand that it's going to take a long time. And diet changes to me Think about six to six months to a year, people. Not, you know, "It's January 1st and get these arms by March." Such bullshit what's on the internet or what's on magazines. So, we're just always so sold this terrible bill of goods. And so think of it as a diet change. 6 months to a year, and then for the rest of your life you're practicing it. That's what you do. Just like yoga and everything else. Just, whatever, you practice. And so people are like, "Oh, god. It's so boring." or "This sucks. I want to hurry up." But what else are we doing, right? I mean, we're supposed to be learning, evolving, growing, not just sitting on our couch every night watching the same damn TV, Netflix, whatever. Of course do that, too, and chill out. But we should always be learning things. Like I don't get it. I'm not saying learn how to build a townhouse. I'm just saying learn. Pay attention to yourself. Try to do just do things that are going to provide growth and interest and whatever. Otherwise, life is really long, right? So, I tell people when they're coming to change and they want lifestyle, you know, eating and, exercising and all that. I'm like, "Please, first of all, know that it's going to take a minute. You must know that, so you can manage your expectations, and that you're on a journey right now. And you're going You're going to learn all these new things. You're going to incorporate it. You're going to move forward, then you're going to fall back, and then you're going to move forward. And from each time you fall back, if you're mindful, you're going to learn, and then that's where you grow, which is so freaking amazing. You know, I say this a lot, but it's like embrace failure, because that means, hopefully, you're going to learn something, and that doesn't happen again. So, the only way we learn is if we screw something up. So, I don't know. I'm I'm just, you know, I'm I'm turning 60 this year, and I'm just really interested in all the things that I don't know. I love listening to podcasts. I love watching YouTube. This is, you know, why we do what we do. You can put stuff out on the internet to really make people, You know, expand their mind, maybe think about the way they're doing something and changing it up a little bit. And, again, doesn't happen overnight, but start percolating on ways in which to make your life better, right? Live your best life. That's what we talk about here, too, besides kidney stones. And so, I don't know, it just pick a podcast. Just the fact that you're here learning and wanting to grow and change is freaking amazing, right? That's what we're supposed to be doing, and I know you agree with that. ### Mindset Shifts and Living in the Present 00:06:21 Jeff Sarris Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and it's easy to think, almost think towards the end. Not the end of the line in a morbid way, but whatever we're doing like, "Oh, once I finish this." or "Once I get here." Or it's like it's great to have little signposts along the way like, "Oh, I'd really love to have, Seven days in a row following the Kidney Stone Diet." Like just as a very like on-topic thing. But, like those are great. But it's a lot of times we get caught up in, "Oh, when I finish this, Then I will feel whatever." or "I will I will be satisfied because I made this much money." or these things that are somewhat outside of our control. And we're also pushing our focus too far ahead. We need to make sure we're staying here and being present and I mean, experiencing your time with Finn. It's like 00:07:13 Jill Harris Yes! 00:07:14 Jeff Sarris That is huge. That is what makes life, worth living because we need to we need to be in the now. But I guess before we get too far down this, should we dive into this episode? 00:07:23 Jill Harris Yeah, I know. I know. We diverge. I know. I know. There's got to always people in the comments that say, "They really start talking about a kidney stone at 6 minutes and 32 seconds. If you want to bu- bypass this bullshit, just go there." 00:07:38 Jeff Sarris Yeah, we get our philosophy in first or what's going on in our life, then we dive into the episode. But yeah, anyway, this week we are going with a frequently asked question. So, normally we take listener voicemails. That number is 773-789-8763. And if you have a question, definitely give that number a call. Leave your name, question, and where you're from, and we'll feature you on a future episode. But today, we are specifically answering the question: "How do I break up my kidney stone?" And long time listeners know the answer to this, 00:08:14 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:08:15 Jeff Sarris But it's important to cover. So, that's why we're going to touch on it today. ### Breaking Up Calcium Oxalate vs Uric Acid Stones 00:08:21 Jill Harris Yeah, it's important to cover. So, yes, "How do I break up my kidney stone?" So, the scenario is this: You wake up in pain, you go It's always 3:00 AM. I don't know why, but it is. You wind up being so sick, you go to the emergency room and, you know, the doctor says, "Here's some morphine. Go home and pass it," Cuz maybe it's small or whatever. You did imaging. And so, one of the first things people See, now he's making noise. One of the first things I'll get him a bone. One of the first things people do is they will Google, "How do I break up a kidney stone? How do I break it up? How do I get this damn thing out of me?" But, they first think, "How do I break it up?", Especially if it's a bigger one. They're going to want to break it up so they don't have to have a surgery. Nobody's going to like this answer, and you cannot break up a kidney stone. You cannot break it up. You've got to understand, people, those lasers lots of times can't even break them up. They're just that hard. Think about it. If you put They're like little rocks. Put a rock in some kind of solution, it's not going to break up. It's going to sit there, okay? But, if you are a uric acid stone former, that composition of stone can break up if you alkalinize the urine with potassium citrate or any alkali drug. That could do it, or supplement, because they're basically supplements. Something like Moonstone, something like Litholyte, something like, you know, you could suck on a lemon. I wouldn't advise it. I mean, who really knows how much lemon you'd have to suck on? You'd probably lose all your teeth and tooth enamel. So, I wouldn't advise that. But you could ask the doctor, "Do you know if I make a uric acid stone, cuz should I try potassium citrate, or something like that?" But, guys, most stones are calcium oxalate, And the next most common one is calcium phosphate. Then you have your uric acid. Sometimes, uric acid is a part of those other Well, not with calcium phosphate, but, sometimes, uric acid stones can be mixed with calcium oxalate stones, but the point is, most of you have calcium oxalate stones. Up to 80% of kidney stones are calcium oxalate. You cannot break them up with any pill or potion. You cannot. There will always be people in the comments that say this, "Mine broke up! Mine broke up! I drank a beer, and it just poof, dissolved! Came all out of me, all different pieces." What can I tell you? Those people are going to believe what they believe. Now, I'm here to tell you, and you can search any kind of scientific journal, you cannot break up a kidney stone unless it's uric acid. So, you can sit there and you can you can argue, but any doctor is going to tell you that you cannot break them up unless they're uric acid. Now, ### Debunking Home Remedies for Passing Stones 00:11:21 Jill Harris This goes the other way, too. "How can I pass my stone? Well, Jill, my doctor told me to drink a beer, and I drank a beer, and my stone fell right out." Was it the beer? Was it just that time, or was it just fluids? Because beer is a fluid, so you're drinking a six pack of beer, and the stone came out. Yes, the beer, the alcohol, can, you know, Dilate your ureter, so that could happen. How much? I don't know. But I always go back to this: Was it the "I drank a Coca-Cola, Jill. Coca-Cola is the magic thing. My stone just popped in the toilet bowl." Again, was it Coca-Cola, or was it fluid? If you had drank the copious amounts of water, would that same thing have happened? I would say yes. But I can't argue against people that don't want to listen to rationale. So, whatever you say in the comments, you are you are absolutely allowed to have your opinion, and whatever you did that made your stone come out, I will just always push back and say, "Was it Just not fluid?" Okay? So, that's just what I know over 24 years of working with, you know, experts in the field. But as far as breaking up a stone, you cannot break up a kidney stone unless it is a uric acid stone, and, alkalinizing your urine, which means making your urine more alkaline, Will can, it's not definite, but can shrink your uric acid stone. It can. And then, maybe you can pass it better. Those are kind of like sandy kind of stones. So, yes, that can happen. But no other stone can be broken up. It is absolutely impossible. There, I said it. 00:13:17 Jeff Sarris Yeah. 00:13:18 Jill Harris Yeah, I mean, I really don't have You know, like I said, I get so much negative fee- feedback, because people in what they did and then the stone passed. But I'm just always going to say, "Was it a coincidence?" And they're they're going to say it absolutely wasn't. So, and that's okay. I mean, I welcome it. I'm not new at this. You know what I mean? I've heard this for decades. So, whatever they want to say is fine, but I will always push back and say what I say. ### Apple Cider Vinegar and Chanca Piedra Efficacy 00:13:45 Jeff Sarris Yeah. Absolutely. Now, some of the remedies, some of the things that are promoted tend to be like apple cider vinegar, you mentioned lemons already, and Chanca Piedra. Do those have any place in this process? 00:14:02 Jill Harris No, they don't. They absolutely don't. So, we also have videos on them, and there's no science that shows. And there will be people, and look, there's some things, people, that there isn't science yet, but those stones, calcium oxalate and calcium phosphate stones, you can't break them up. Again, you could put a freaking rock in apple cider vinegar, it ain't going to break up. Okay? So, but these are common myths in the kidney stone world. They're just common myths. People did those things, and they will on their dying breath say, "That made my stone come out.", when it was just fluid. That's all I'm saying, right? So, but, but I embrace everyone's opinion. I don't agree with them, and I have mine based upon science. But, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. Who knows what they'll figure out. But I can tell you, a couple patients a week tell me, "Yeah, Jill. They did the lithotripsy. That laser couldn't break up the stone." So, again, we think freaking, ACV is breaking up a kidney stone, when they're going in there with Star Wars stuff, and they're not breaking up? I don't know. But I welcome the comments, because it'll be very, colorful, to say the least. 00:15:15 Jeff Sarris Like now I'm picturing the doctor having like Star Wars music playing while they're, pew, pew, pew, getting all the lasers in there. 00:15:21 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:15:23 Jeff Sarris Because yeah, like really that is that is an intense kind of, procedure, 00:15:30 Jill Harris Yeah, sure. 00:15:31 Jeff Sarris To then to then sort of hope that taking a pill or drinking something would just sort of do the same thing. It's It's unfortunate, because we want the fix. We all want the fix. Like, you would love for those things to work. 00:15:43 Jill Harris I would love for those things to work, because then I'll find a different career, because I've been doing this for a long time. I could easily do something else. And it would always be with diet. It would always be that, right, because I love talking about lifestyle. It is what I love. So, but I'm just saying, that would be great, because look at all of the kidney stone formers that wouldn't have to ### Science-Based Prevention and Urine Testing 00:16:04 Jill Harris If you want to prevent new kidney stones, try the Kidney Stone Diet. It is not something I've made up. This is all based upon science. Go to Dr. Fred Coe, C-O-E, his website. That's where all the science sits at kidneystonediet.uchicago.edu, and you can see everything I'm talking about in Jill ways, is really all drenched in science in Dr. Coe's website. And, you know, it's not just his science. It's from physicians all over the world that have done research on kidney stone, leading, experts, by the way, not just, you know It's their leading experts that have been published in peer reviewed, blah, blah, blah. So, the science all sits there. I just bring it home in a way that everybody can understand, because, you know, nobody wants to go through scientific journals all day long. But you can't break up stones unless they're uric acid stones. If you want to stop making stones, we can stop up to 80% new stones from happening by doing diet and sometimes meds. Also, get your 24-hour urine collections done, because that's going to tell you exactly what you need to do, and that's very important. You can't just Now, if you just say, "I'm not doing that. I'm just going to do the Kidney Stone Diet.", you'll certainly going to lower your risk of a lot of things, because you're eating less sugar, less salt, you're getting your fluids in, you're getting calcium for your bones, doing all those things. That's what I put people on when they come to me just for weight loss, and they don't have kidney stones. It's a healthy diet. ### Vulnerability to Miracle Cures and Superfoods 00:17:30 Jill Harris But, if you want to stop making stones, you've got to do the work. There's nothing here that's magical. And I'm going to go off on a little for this. I've been, you know, there was this video I've just seen lately, and when I was going through all my cancer treatments, I can't tell you how much stuff was sent to my email. Even going through cancer, and I had stage four. So, you get a lot of stuff in your email, however they find out things. And, you know, you're so afraid you're going to die when you're first given that diagnosis, and I would watch so many people that I was going through that journey, other stage four, rectal cancer patients, go through that journey with me, and they died. And so, each one of them would say, "Jill, you're doing so well." Meanwhile, I'm really sick, but I'm still alive, right? And they are now aware they're dying. They've been given their time, and so they know. And they would say things like, "What are you doing? What are you eating?" And it would make me feel bad, only because, why am I still here and they're not? I don't know, it's why I have this horseshoe. I just think I'm super lucky, You know? Was I eating like a superfood that kept me alive? No, I just was eating whatever I could at that point, because I was so deathly ill. But let me tell you why I'm going off on this. We, as people, we, as human beings, want to believe that there is this one superfood, whatever, this one special pill, this one special juice, this one special potion that's going to cure us when we're deathly ill, or prevent cancer, or any of these, Or we have colitis, or Crohn's, or bowel disease, or diabetes. And if we just suck on this goji berry, where everything's going to disappear. And so, it preys on our on our, It preys on our, hopelessness. It preys on our anxiety, and fear, and all the things. And so, we take those foods. And many of you did take those foods because you were fighting diabetes, and now you have a kidney stone, because you overate Spinach and almonds and all that stuff. My point is, even though I teach nutrition for a living, there is no such thing as one food preventing cancer or any disease. Don't fall for it. When I was going through all my cancer, and not knowing if I was going to live or not, I took a lot of supplements, because you just do. Because you'll do it You do it. I went through a very prominent naturopath, So it wasn't like I went, you know, to the corner store. I went to a very PhD, MD person. But still, I was taking hundreds of dollars of supplements. I don't freaking know what they did, okay? I wound up getting off all of them, way before my cancer was done, because I it's so much money, and I felt like such shit with chemo, and radiation, and all these surgeries I went through. I don't think they did much for me. They weren't going to keep me alive. That was my choice. Everybody needs to do their own choice. But what I'm saying, what I experienced as a patient was like, if I just take this, maybe I can see a grandbaby. If I take this, make You're just You're afraid. And I don't care if you have stage four cancer, or you have bowel disease, or diabetes, or whatever, you're scared once you get something. Doesn't have to be as dramatic as stage four cancer. It's just what I've had, so I bring that up. Whatever you have: fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, all the things that we get, we just want something to fix it. It's not going to be there, sometimes. My diet is not going to make you not get cancer. Could never promise that. Sometimes, we just get sick anyway. So, don't fall for the bullshit that's out there. And especially, ### Evaluating Health Claims and Oxalate Toxicity Myths 00:21:16 Jill Harris Make sure you're really listening to people that are have credentials. Don't just listen to people that are saying, "Oxalates are killing the world." That's another thing. All this oxalate toxicity, is this based upon science, people? Check your sources before you stop eating healthy foods. So, you see I'm going all over the place, but the bottom line is this: There is no magic cure for anything. Nothing. There is nothing I did to keep alive. I'm just freaking lucky. Just, my time wasn't up yet, okay? So, don't fall for it. It was a very scary time in my life, and I fell for a lot of shit. I wouldn't do it again, because I know it's it's there's just We get what we get, sometimes, in the world, and it's just not fair, people. But doing this diet will help prevent disease. Is it a guarantee? No. No, there's not one thing we're guaranteed in life, folks. And my diet isn't a guarantee, either. But research shows that it can lessen your kidney stones, okay? It ain't going to prevent cancer. I still got it. So, I'm just saying, there is no quick fix. There is no magic pill. Do your best. That's all we can do. Do your best, when you're up to it. On days where you can't do your best, it's okay. Just get right back to work. That's how we roll here. But don't believe the snake oil stuff. It really bothers me. Personally, it bothers me, because of the things that, you know, I was told, and I believed myself. Don't Don't Don't go there. It's a lot of money. But, of course, make your own decision. Talk about everything with the doctor. You must talk to your doctor about all things. See if it's right for you. These are just my opinions. All right, Jeff. I'm off my soapbox. 00:23:12 Jeff Sarris No, no. That was very important and very heartfelt. I know everyone appreciates, the insight that you have from your experience, which is different. Everyone has their own experience, and the people who've gone through stones and everything specifically have their own unique, but unique experience. But I think it's so valuable to hear yours, as well, because this isn't just, You're You're not only coming here from the practitioner, the nurse side, you're coming here from the patient side, albeit a different vertical, a different type of patient, 00:23:44 Jill Harris Yeah. 00:23:45 Jeff Sarris But just like the patients you work with, you didn't know you didn't know what you didn't know. There's so much you didn't know about cancer and treatment and what you could do, so 00:23:54 Jill Harris Yes. 00:23:55 Jeff Sarris Yeah, I think it's very valuable to have that perspective. ### Empathy and Patient Perspectives in Healthcare 00:24:02 Jill Harris Yeah, and when I'm talking to people on the phone, you know, some days I'm very grateful for everything I've been through. I never look at it as I never once did go, "Why me?", or I'm just like, "Okay. What do I need to do? Like I need I just need to follow what I need to follow and get on with it." I never felt And I'm not saying, "Look at me. I'm a freaking Queen Marie." I'm just I just never felt like "Why me?", or I just I didn't. I just didn't. And so, After I was lucky enough, so far, to get through this, so far I mean, you know, my cancer's come back. It could very well come back, right? You know, sure, and I'm very aware of that. And that's why I focus on the things that matter the most, and I throw out everything else that doesn't. So, I love my perspective now. And what I'm what I'm most grateful for my cancer, and there are a lot of things I'm grateful for, Honestly, is that I can bring what I learned to my patients, and I can also, not only sympathize with them, I truly empathize when they say, "Jill, I'm so afraid to eat. I don't know. You know, I feel so overwhelmed. I have to have these surgeries and I don't" You're You're overwhelmed when you're sick, whether it's cancer or kidney stone, it doesn't matter. It's scary. And nowadays, going into a hospital, It's just, you know, going through all of it, the medical expense, it's so expensive to be sick, you're off work. Oh, my god. It's so all encompassing, and, some people, and myself included, I definitely have PTSD around all the things I've been through as far as, you know, "What can I eat? Is that going to cause a bowel problem for me?" There's all I understand my patients I so much, I just can't even tell you. So, again, Often, my calls are coming from my heart, of course, from my head, and all the education I know about the kidney stone world, but so much of it is about my passion, because of what I've gone through, too. So, you know, it's like kindred spirits talking to each other, and I know my patients feel that, because they tell me it. It's part of who I am. My illness doesn't define me, but it's definitely a big part of me and how I conduct business now, and I'm I'm I'm grateful for it, as crazy as that sounds. I've learned so much, So much from being sick. And one of the best things about, and I tell my patients this, I'm so the only reason I love kidney stones is because now you're ready to listen to change your diet. And it is It is the When we're sick, folks, you change shit real fast. It ain't about looking adorable in a bikini anymore. It's about, "Okay. Now, I'm sick, and I don't ever want to go through a kidney stone pain again. I'm ready, Jill. I'm ready." You know, and whether you're get paying for our services here so you can get there faster, or paying for nothing, that's why we put all this free information out, so you're privy to it, okay? So, you don't have to make another kidney stone. Get on the diet, learn what to do, talk to your doctor, get on a good treatment plan, get a 24-hour urine collection. We're putting it all out there for you, people. Do it, because being sick is no freaking joke, and we all know that here. So, that's my wrap for today. 00:27:22 Jeff Sarris Yeah, I think that is a perfect spot to close out. So, again, kidneystonediet.com where you can find all the resources, the course, the meal plans, and everything, free and premium. And the phone number if you have a question: 773-789-8763, and we'd love to feature you in the future. Yeah. With that, I think we'll wrap. So, Awesome. See everyone next week. 00:27:46 Jill Harris Bye.