# High urine calcium and kidney stones Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/high-urine-calcium-and-kidney-stones/ Published: 2022-06-28 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5OK7nQFFS4)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-urine-calcium-and-kidney-stones/id1528474326?i=1000567991391&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1woA1wgfM1GnzpLa4nsKbX)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) June 28, 2022 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill answers a question about high urine calcium. Have a question? Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763.\  \  **= Stop your kidney stones once and for all =**\ • [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/)\ • [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/)\ • [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **= FREE Kidney Stone Resources =**\ • [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/)\ • [Free Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/)\ • [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) Find more episodes of the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast at [kidneystonediet.com/podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) **= Who is Jill Harris? =**\ [youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet](https://www.youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet) Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com/), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. **= Who is Jeff Sarris? =**\ [youtube.com/jeffsarris](https://youtube.com/jeffsarris) Jeff’s co-founder of [SPYR](https://spyr.me/), a branding agency based out of Chicago, where he and his business partner Dave help awesome people like Jill create online platforms that make an impact. He’s also a certified health coach, host of the [Starting Now podcast](https://spyr.fm/now), and developing NFTs and community with an artist named [Badfroot](https://badfroot.com). Reach out on Twitter! [@jeffSARRIS](https://twitter.com/jeffSARRIS) ## Chapters - 00:00:00 Dehydration, Hospitalization, and Recovery After Illness - 00:02:41 Listener Call on Stones, Osteopenia, and Medications - 00:06:05 Differences Between Kidney Stones and Bladder Stones - 00:07:08 How Kidney Stones Travel Through the Ureters - 00:09:20 Effects of Sodium and Sugar on Kidney Strain - 00:10:38 High Urine Calcium, Osteopenia, and Bone Loss - 00:13:25 Asymptomatic Kidney Stones and 24-Hour Urine Testing - 00:15:30 Thiazides and Potassium Citrate for High Urine Calcium - 00:19:28 Managing Dietary Calcium Goals Without Overconsuming ## Transcript ### Dehydration, Hospitalization, and Recovery After Illness 00:00:00 [Music] 00:00:13 Jeff Sarris Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and fellow student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:21 Jill Harris And I'm Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. 00:00:24 Jeff Sarris And we're back at it again! How you doing? 00:00:27 Jill Harris Back at it again. I'm trying to regain my energy because as some followers may know, I was in the hospital. So, just having, they couldn't figure out anything wrong with me, but it got me a two day, two night hospital stay and, They don't know if it was viral or bacterial or whatever it was, but I, I, I was telling people I lost eight pounds in four days, so severely dehydrated. And honestly, stone former audience, [laughter] I was like, "Oh, please dear God, don't let me get a kidney stone during this." Now, you know, you're, you're not going to get a kidney stone in such a short time, But I, you know, that's what I do for a living. So of course I'm like, "Oh my God, I need fluids. Get me to the hospital. [laughter] I need fluids." So, I'm back. I'm slowly mending. I'm not going to lie. It's, you know, it really, really drained me, and I was, I'm, I'm anemic right now. So low in iron from all from all the diarrhea and everything. It was tough, I have to say, but here I am. And I wore Sometimes, people, when you wear bright colors, it cheers you up in your mind, even though you feel gray inside. So yeah, I thought I'd wear something bright and happy. 00:01:34 Jeff Sarris Yeah, for sure. That's the way to do it. But yeah, yeah, I mean, just real quick on that, that is so much to deal with just all of a sudden. Cuz I didn't I had no idea. Dave had mentioned like the other third of Kidney Stone Diet, Dave, he mentioned to me that you were in the hospital, and I was shocked. Like I just, Yeah, that stuff happens so I want to say so quickly, but like something can just happen out of nowhere. Obviously, you were going through it for a period of time, for sure. But, yeah, it's just wild. One day you're out 00:02:02 Jill Harris Yeah. Well, a lot of people didn't know because, you know, it just it did just kind of happen. So, you're absolutely right about that. And so, you know, I thought I could handle what was going on, but when I woke up and weighed myself, I'm like, "I need to go now." [laughter] So, and of course, I was worried about little Finn, but he got good he got good care. You know, it's nothing worse than you have to go in the hospital and you got a brand new puppy and now you have to ask people to watch your puppy. So, that wasn't easy either, but I had great people in my life to take care of them. And so, here I am, Mending, and I'm doing okay. 00:02:38 Jeff Sarris Good. Good, I'm glad to hear it. 00:02:40 Jill Harris I'm doing okay. ### Listener Call on Stones, Osteopenia, and Medications 00:02:41 Jeff Sarris But yeah, so this week we were going to dive into another listener question. And if you have any questions, the number is 773-789-8763, and we'd love to answer yours on a future episode. But what do you say we get started? 00:02:56 Jill Harris Let's go, baby. 00:02:59 Jeff Sarris Hi Jeff. Hi Jill. My name is Julie. I'm from Maryland. First, I want to thank you both for what you do. You both are a blessing and listening to your podcast has helped me restore my faith in humanity. So again, thank you. I have three questions. My first question is, what is the difference between kidney stones and bladder stones? My next question is I'm 46 years old. I still have my period, but I have osteopenia now in my hips and I'm a very active person. Lift, I'm do cardio, I've been that way as long as I can recall. And I was shocked to learn that. So I am on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide 25 mg. So my question is, is it possible that I could be getting too much calcium and that is why my kidneys why my urine test is showing I'm having too much calcium? I do eat a lot of calcium. I'm thinking maybe I have I'm eating too much. And my last question is I've never had any issues with my kidney stones. I didn't even know I had them. They were discovered on by accident on a scan. And it just seems odd to me that I would never have had any problems with them. My question is, Are there is that common to have kidney stones and not even know you've had them? So those are my questions. So, thank you, Jill. Thank you, Jeff. Take care. 00:04:54 Jill Harris Julie, it is our privilege to be able to serve this kidney stone community. So, thank you for your, wonderful words. We appreciate them. I wanted to say that first. Okay, lots of great questions. I love when you guys call in and you have, You know, this is this isn't just, "Is avocado high in oxalate?" Which we'll do! But, it's it's this is this is what I do every day and what really excites me. So, a patient has all these questions and, the urine collection has So, let me sum up what she just said to me, To Jeff and I. She has high urine calcium on her urine collection. That's number one. She is young and she has osteopenia, which is the beginning of bone disease. She is taking calcium supplements. She also eats and/or drinks, she didn't specify, but she said she takes in a lot of calcium. Her question is, is she taking in too much? So, lots of good things. I get real excited with these meaty questions. Okay. ### Differences Between Kidney Stones and Bladder Stones 00:06:05 Jill Harris So, number one, I would Julie, I would love to know this and call back and we'll talk. I would love to know this. So, you didn't know you had scans and also the other question, of the difference between kidney stones and bladder stones. Let's get that out of the way because it's kind of separate than all this wonderful other stuff that we can put together. Kidney stone versus bladder stones, they are different things. Kidney stones happen in the kidneys. That's where they begin making themselves. Bladder stones make themselves in the bladder. But kidney stones can go to the bladder and be found there. So, but they are different things. A lot of people will say, "I have bladder stones." They are different than kidney stones, unless the kidney stone traveled down and now is waiting in the bladder to pass. Okay, so there's that difference. That's easy. This is a little bit more meaty. 00:07:00 Jeff Sarris Real quick, just out of curiosity. That is I don't even know. The bladder comes after the kidneys, right? So then, basically— ### How Kidney Stones Travel Through the Ureters 00:07:08 Jill Harris So, it goes kidneys, it goes it goes like this. Kidneys are up here, then the ureters, and then the ureters Can you still see me? 00:07:16 Jeff Sarris Yeah. 00:07:16 Jill Harris Go into the bladder here. Bladder in front here, okay? So, the kidneys are here up on your back, and the ureters or ureters, as people call them different things, the kidneys and the bladder are hooked up with the ureters, okay? So, those are the little tubes where everyone's like, "Holy Jesus, I got a lot of pain!" Because those tubes are teeny-weeny, and these stones, when they try to go through those tubes into the bladder and hopefully pass, It's like shards of glass ripping the skin in those ureters. And you may say, "Oh, that's a little dramatic, Jill," like I always say. But if you listen to my patients every day, I'm being like a kitten, like a little precious petite kitten saying what they tell me. So, it's Those stones are very big compared to the ureters, and when they're passing, that's why there's blood in the urine. It's breaking up, you know, it's it's hurt hurting those ureters. So, it's very, very painful. And lots of times they get stuck there, And then you have to go up and take them out. And what also is painful with UTIs and sepsis is the stone gets stuck in the ureter, and urine can get stuck, and it back-flows. It can't go out where it wants to through the bladder and through the urethra and then you pee into the a commode, it's getting back-flowed, and that's where stuff can happen because remember, now, urine is waste. The kidney is filtering your blood and the stuff that it doesn't need, the body doesn't need, goes out, the waste goes out in your urine. So, It's interesting, right? And I think everybody should look at, on my TikTok account, I do have like, little videos of the ureters and what kidneys look like with stones in them. They're it's very interesting and real anatomy, not pictures and stuff, so it's it's really interesting. So you should Google like the anatomy of your kidneys and your ureters and your bladder and see, what it looks like. Because I think, too, when we understand ### Effects of Sodium and Sugar on Kidney Strain 00:09:20 Jill Harris What our organs do, we tend to I got off the phone with a patient this morning. They were very overweight and they were saying, "You know, I just don't this is just so hard, blah, blah, blah." And it is hard to get all this under control, that's why they called me. But when I talk to patients and I tell them, What's really hard is the excess salt and sugar, the excess fluids you have in your system because you're not peeing them out because you're retaining them, that's a lot of work based upon your diet. That's a lot of work for your heart and your kidneys to be pumping all that fluid. It's extra work. And the kidneys are probably the most delicate organ, the most sensitive. So, you know, our other organs are a little hardier than the kidneys. The kidneys are sensitive, so That's why we, you know, a lot of us are walking around with CKD, chronic kidney disease. So, we really want to be gentle with our body. We want to nourish it. We want to get rid of the excess water by limiting added sugar and salt, right? So, our heart and our kidneys don't have to pump all this extra fluid. It's super important, but of course I digress. Now, let's talk about lovely Julie. So, she says, "I'm 46. I have osteopenia," which is the beginning of bone disease. ### High Urine Calcium, Osteopenia, and Bone Loss 00:10:44 Jill Harris My question for you, Julie, and what I'd like for you to do is call back or you can write me at jill@kidneystonediet.com. Why were you diagnose with osteopenia? Did you have a fracture and you went in and you had an X-ray and someone said, "Oh, and by the way, you have this in your hips," or when I look at urine collections from patients, I'll I'll say, "You have a lot of You have high urine calcium. You might also, when you're talking to your doctor About this lab result, you might want to say, "Hey, do I need Do I need to go get imaging of my bones to make sure they're okay?" Okay? Because lots of times, if it's not diet-related, too much calcium in your urine is very indicative, of course, bone disease because it could be you're losing calcium from your bone and the excess is being dumped into your urine, if it's not diet-related and other disease-related. If a doctor looks at your urine collection, or I look at it and I say, "Hey, your diet's great. Talk to the doctor about these other circumstances that could be leading to high calcium in your urine." And if all those things are ruled out, you might just have, of course you need a doctor to diagnose you, as a nurse I do not, but you might have IH, idiopathic hypercalciuria, which means, "Hey, we've ruled everything else out. This is just genetics at this point." And even if you do, I mean, the diet is even more important for those patients because their calcium would be even higher if they didn't pay attention to salt and added sugar, so they must do that. But, so, that's a lot of words, I know, but there's In kidney stone disease, wherever there is a stone clinic, a bone clinic is close by. Because although everyone wants to talk about oxalate, this is so much about too much calcium in the urine and the multitude of reasons why that could be. So, I'm interested. What came first? The stone or the bone disease? It sounds like to me the bone disease, But let us know by calling back. So, she has high urine calcium, which probably led to, again, I'm a nurse, I don't diagnose anybody, but it could be this high urine calcium was going around for a long time. Nobody, no audience member would know they have that unless they did a urine collection, and why I scream about getting urine collections done, people. If you are a kidney stone former and if you are, you're if you're here, you probably are, please make sure you get a 24-hour urine collection ### Asymptomatic Kidney Stones and 24-Hour Urine Testing 00:13:25 Jill Harris Ordered from your doctor. Do not take no for an answer. The 24-hour urine collection will tell you why you're forming stones and also help you understand or see and have the doctor see, "Hey, by the way, you got high urine calcium. That's going to be a problem for kidney stone risk." So, she is a very common somebody has the beginning of bone disease and also kidney stones. She also said, She just happened to find this on imaging when she was doing imaging for something else. She didn't even know she had that, headstones. How common is that? It's not that uncommon. I hear that a lot. I guess, you know, you don't hear about that in the kidney stone world because I think most people who tell me they don't have pain, they kind of feel bad that they don't have pain because everyone who has had pain, it's so bad that the people that haven't had painful kidney stones, they kind of hang out in the background and don't say much, right? Cuz they kind of have survivor's guilt [laughter] about it. But I it's, you know, it's I hear that once a week in my practice, you know, out of all my stone formers, so it's not uncommon. But most people suffer pain, for sure. I hear that. You'd be surprised how much I hear that. So she found it on imaging, by going through something else. She has been put on, I'm assuming, but I do not know. Did the endocrinologist or the primary who's dealing with your bone disease put you on the calcium citrate And the hydrochlorothiazide? Or did your urologist put you on these things? That's very important for me to know to be able to answer your question properly. The other thing is, she asked, the reason I ask who put her on the hydrochlorothiazide, this is a diuretic. It's a common water pill. It can be used for blood pressure, it can be used, and is used, for kidney stone disease because the side effect of that pill is it will help reduce urine calcium. ### Thiazides and Potassium Citrate for High Urine Calcium 00:15:30 Jill Harris So, it's used a lot to help prevent kidney stones, also. People are put on calcium citrate sometimes for the bone disease. So, I don't know who put her on these pills. The hydrochlorothiazide is used commonly in kidney stone disease, but in her case, because of the high urine calcium, I don't know who did it, bone doctor or urologist. So, don't know that. The calcium citrate, did the bone doctor put her on that, or did the urologist? So, I'd like to know that. Now, if the bone doctor or whoever's dealing with her bone disease put her on the calcium citrate, it could be that the doctor said, "You need this because you have bone disease and you need to get your calcium." Most adults do not get enough calcium by food or drink, so they are just given the pills. The pills can increase your stone risk. So, again, I need much more information. It always seems like so easy, but there's there stone disease and just dealing with patient questions are always a little bit more complicated than they seem, and that's why I love them so much. But, so, my question for you would be to ask your doctor. This is what I would say if you called me on your urine test and said, "Look, let's go over the test so I know how to talk to my doctor about this," I would say this. Oh. Hang on. Always. Okay. Sorry, Jeff. 00:17:09 Jeff Sarris All righty. Oh no, it's all good, and we are back. 00:17:12 Jill Harris Okay, I'm sorry, guys. Okay, so we don't know where I am, right? So let me see. Oh, so many. Yeah. 00:17:18 Jeff Sarris So one thing I actually wanted to rewind a little, because I just double checked the little transcript I have here from the call, and she actually said potassium citrate. 00:17:26 Jill Harris Better. Okay. Great. Better. I thought it was weird, calcium citrate. Okay. So, the patient said, it was my mistake, the patient said she was put on potassium citrate, not calcium citrate, which is much better. That's why I thought the bone doctor the whoever's dealing with her bone disease must have put her on the calcium citrate because, typically, when one is ordered hydrochlorothiazide, they automatically get put on potassium citrate because hydrochlorothiazide can Lower your potassium levels in your blood, okay? So, that's why those two drugs Now, why am I always screaming about the Kidney Stone Diet? Because I want to avoid these drugs! Because one pill begets another pill begets another pill. So, if we can lower our salt and added sugar, and get our calcium in range by doing that, that's best. And by the way, those pills, the hydrochlorothiazide anyway, will not be as effective If the patient doesn't lower their sodium. So, I always get my way with the diet changes, so. Because some people say, "Forget you and this stupid diet, Jill! I've had it. I'm just going to take the pill." Well, listen, Bill, if the pill doesn't work unless you st- you still have to lower your sodium. So, you still have to do that. Hate you, Jill. Okay. [laughter] So, so, so she's put on the hydrochlorothiazide and the potassium citrate because the doctors, Whichever one or both, want to lower her urine calcium. Now, she may say, "Look, I eat healthy. My salt and sugar are good. I still had to go on that pill." Because sometimes people have other things going on and they still have high urine calcium, perhaps again like I said, it's genetic. Did she get her parathyroid checked? The parathyroid can increase urine calcium. So, hopefully, all those things were checked before the thiazide was introduced, meaning ### Managing Dietary Calcium Goals Without Overconsuming 00:19:28 Jill Harris Hopefully all those things were checked to rule them out before being put on a med. Of course, her doctor, I'm sure, took care of all that. Now, is she getting too much calcium? She's like, "I like eating calcium and drinking calcium. I'm worried if I'm getting too much." Sometimes patients hear me screaming on the internet, before they do a urine collection, they change their diet. They say, "She said, for me to get calcium, she said if I'm a man, 1,000. If I'm a woman who still gets her period, 1,000. If I'm a woman who doesn't get her period, up to 1,200. So, I'm going to go to 1,800 cuz more is better, right?" not necessarily. In most cases, not. As stone formers know, as they did with spinach and almonds, right? So, they overdid them and got high oxalate. So, in this case, I always tell my stone formers, go up to your goal, not over. Calcium is not that easily absorbed, Okay? And sometimes if we're taking too much, too much at a time, if we are people that do have to take calcium supplements because they have gastric bypass or whatever, and they must take supplements, they're not taking it with food, and so, there's again, complicated, people. There's many different reasons why you may taking a getting too much calcium, the extra will wind up in your urine. The doctor just assumes there's no way you're eating or drinking too much, slaps a pill on it, okay? So, we want to make sure we don't we are not on medications without needing them. But again, as I always say, you guys don't know what you don't know. So, when you're armed with the education that we're providing you here, then you can have better, productive office visits with your doctor, and Julie can say, "Listen, doc. Look, I get plenty of calcium. I'm wondering if I'm getting too much." You know, and you can have these conversations. Not every doctor will understand all that because it's nutrition-based stuff, so, and they're surgeons, that's what they do. So, but I'm just saying, You could have that conversation and see where it goes. So, Julie, absolutely, you could be getting too much calcium. Again, if I were working with you, I would say, "Do you think you got too much calcium on the day of the collection?" Is that possible? Because when you do the follow-up urine collection, which, of course, you should, and especially now if you're put on meds, you want to make sure you're on the right dose of medications, you do have to do a 24-hour urine follow-up. So, always make sure that's that's very important and that gets ordered, okay? I think Jeff, I think I got everything she asked. Is she getting too much calcium? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Great question. 00:22:18 Jeff Sarris Yeah, it was a great question. Thank you for your questions. That was a wonderful call. And if you have any questions, any other listeners, the number is 773-789-8763 and we would love to feature you on a future episode. But I think with that, we will wrap right around here. Like, head over to kidneystonediet.com if you want to learn more, find the free email newsletter that Jill sends out every Saturday. You can find the Kidney Stone Prevention Group, The Kidney Stone Prevention Course, which is premium, but you get the group calls with Jill every week, and there's just so much there, so head over to kidneystonediet.com to find it all. And again, I think that'll do it, so thank you for listening, and we will see you next time. 00:23:03 Jill Harris Thank you, Julie, and thanks, everybody, who's watching. Subscribe to the channel. Bye! 00:23:08 [Music]