# Diabetes, low carb, and uric acid stones Source: https://kidneystonediet.com/ep/diabetes-low-carb-and-uric-acid-stones/ Published: 2022-09-13 --- [![Kidney Stone Diet Podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Podcast-1-1024x1024.jpg)](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSy3jJaDyEg)[Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/diabetes-low-carb-and-uric-acid-stones/id1528474326?i=1000579339694&uo=4)[Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2dDAzifVIQU0WOuHJAwF54)[Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/0868148d-adfd-411d-b3f2-71a0ad1461ec) September 13, 2022 --- ![Jeff Sarris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Jeff-Sarris-150x150.jpg) Jeff Sarris Host ![Jill Harris](https://kidneystonediet.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Kidney-Stone-Diet-Jill-Harris-150x150.jpg) Jill Harris Host This week, Jill talks about diabetes, low carb diets, and uric acid kidney stones. Have a question? Leave us a voicemail at (773) 789-8763.\  \  **= Stop your kidney stones once and for all =**\ • [Kidney Stone Prevention Course](https://kidneystonediet.com/kidney-stone-prevention)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Meal Plans](https://kidneystonediet.com/mealplans/)\ • [24 Hour Urine Collection Analysis](https://kidneystonediet.com/24-hour-urine-analysis/)\ • [Private Coaching](https://kidneystonediet.com/coaching/) **= FREE Kidney Stone Resources =**\ • [Kidney Stone Diet](https://kidneystonediet.com/)\ • [Free Kidney Stone Diet Resources](https://kidneystonediet.com/resources/)\ • [Oxalate Food List](https://kidneystonediet.com/oxalate-list/)\ • [Kidney Stone Diet Recipes](https://kidneystonediet.com/recipes/) Find more episodes of the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast at [kidneystonediet.com/podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast) **= Who is Jill Harris? =**\ [youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet](https://www.youtube.com/TheKidneyStoneDiet) Jill is a nurse and health coach that specializes in educating patients on kidney stone prevention. For more than 20 years she’s helped patients understand that kidney stones can be prevented with the right treatment plan. It’s one thing to be told to lower oxalate or drink more water, but HOW do you do it? That’s where she comes in. Through the educational resources at [kidneystonediet.com](https://kidneystonediet.com/), stone formers can learn everything they need to know to significantly lower new stone risk. **= Who is Jeff Sarris? =**\ [youtube.com/jeffsarris](https://youtube.com/jeffsarris) Jeff’s co-founder of [SPYR](https://spyr.me/), a branding agency based out of Chicago, where he and his business partner Dave help awesome people like Jill create online platforms that make an impact. He’s also a certified health coach, host of the [Starting Now podcast](http://spyr.fm/now), and developing NFTs and community at [Badfroot](https://badfroot.com/). Reach out on Twitter! [@jeffSARRIS](https://twitter.com/jeffSARRIS) ## Chapters - 00:01:01 Diabetes, Low-Carb Diets, and Uric Acid Stones - 00:04:51 Importance of 24-Hour Urine Collections for Diabetics - 00:06:18 Dissolving Uric Acid Stones With Potassium Citrate - 00:09:38 Managing Meat Protein Intake and Acidic Urine - 00:12:50 Connection Between Diabetes and Multiple Stone Types - 00:14:38 Maintaining Food Variety and Moderate Portion Sizes ## Transcript 00:00:00 Jill Harris SPYR. 00:00:13 Jeff Sarris Welcome back to the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast, the show about reducing your kidney stone risk and living your best life. I'm your host and student, Jeff Sarris. 00:00:21 Jill Harris I am Jill Harris, your kidney stone prevention nurse. And I'm very happy to be here this week. I'm very happy. I have no reason to be happy. I like my shirt because it has a little heart on it, so that's sweet. Isn't that cute? Can you see it? 00:00:35 Jeff Sarris Oh yeah. Yeah, I like it. 00:00:37 Jill Harris Yeah, I love it. And that's all. I feel happy, and sweet, and good to go. 00:00:43 Jeff Sarris Perfect. And now the technical difficulties have been resolved. So this episode, we're going to have a listener question, and it is coming from Bruce. I say we just go right to it because I want to be sure it keeps working. 00:00:59 Jill Harris Let's go. 00:01:00 Jeff Sarris Okay. ### Diabetes, Low-Carb Diets, and Uric Acid Stones 00:01:01 Jill Harris Yeah, hi. My name is Bruce, and I live in New Jersey. And a question I have is, I feel like the information that Jill is sharing, is really focused on, the calcium-caused kidney stones, not the uric acid ones. And I may be, may be wrong about that, and the focus on oxalates and stuff. And, and also, you know, she's trying to, obviously, make total sense, talk to the greatest percentage of the population suffering from kidney stones. So when you have things like diabetes, like I have, and I have to be on a special diet if I'm going to manage my sugar, and I'm focused on eating foods based with almond flour, which she's saying to avoid, it's just very confusing for people like me who, you know, don't quite understand how that makes sense for me. So, I'm thinking that, I still need to dive in and do a lot of research, look at a lot of different things. But, it's just my feedback that, her recommendations seem to be for people who are not dealing with uric acid kidney stones. But, I do appreciate a lot of other things that she's talking about. Like, I was just prescribed the potassium citrate, tablets, and I've, again, I'm not sure that makes sense for me. There was no, urine sampling, 24-hour urine sampling that I'm aware of, other than to determine whether or not I had a urinary tract infection. So, thank you. I appreciate all your great work, and keep it up. Bye. Oh, my goodness, Bruce. Bruce from New Jersey, I'm so happy you're here with us. So, I will tell you, we do have a video on uric acid stones, and we do have a video for diabetics, because this is very common, very, a common part of my practice. What happens? "I'm a diabetic." Not me, one. "Jill, I booked the consult with you because I'm a diabetic. You're talking about frickin' calcium oxalate stones all the time. What the hell? I make uric acid stones. We have videos for you." Here's the deal. When a diabetic is diagnosed, they're going to be told, "Almonds! Oh boy, almonds! And guess what? Spinach! Spinach, spinach!" So, my beautiful diabetic patients, They go home, they can't eat carbs, they've got to be very careful of their carb count now, because they're diabetics. What does this leave them with? A lot of fruits and ve- a lot of vegetables, and protein. So, a lot of diabetics will go on keto, a lot. Is it keto per se, or is it just they're lowering carbs? It's just carbs. They're lowering their carbs, which is what they need to do. But now, they're overconsuming high oxalate products. That's when you get into trouble. Again, no food, whether you're a uric acid stone former, calcium oxalate stone former, Calcium phosphate stone former, nobody should be eating as much as they want of any given food. Just not recommended, especially for kidney stone formers. So, the body wants a wide variety of foods. Now, as a diabetic, you have to do low-carb. So, what would I do if we were working together, Bruce? ### Importance of 24-Hour Urine Collections for Diabetics 00:04:51 Jill Harris The number one thing I would say, Bruce, is you have to get a urine collection. Why? Why are you being put on a pill? How do they know the dose? How many pills should you be taking a day? You don't have a urine collection. Typically, diabetics have lower urine pH, which means their urine is more acidic. I am thinking, I do not know, and since I'm a nurse, I have a license to protect. So, I'm just talking to my guy, Bruce. You and I are talking, and I would say, ". Bruce, I wonder why the doctor put you on that medication when you haven't done a 24-hour urine collection?" The doctor could be assuming you do have a low urine pH because you're a diabetic. The doctor could also be assuming, because we know you make a uric acid stone, your urine is probably more acidic based upon just the kind of stone you're making. So, the potassium citrate is going to increase your citrate, Which will alkalinize your urine, meaning taking it from being acidic in the 5s to more basic or alkaline in the 6s. And that alone can protect you from uric acid stones. The damn good thing about uric acid stones, they are dissolvable, ### Dissolving Uric Acid Stones With Potassium Citrate 00:06:18 Jill Harris Which is so amazing! So, everybody put down your Amazon Chanca Piedra you're going to order. It don't work for any stone. It may relax your ureter a little so you can pass it, but there are products, if you make uric acid stone, no other stone is going to break up anything. No other product's going to break up a stone except potassium citrate, citrate products will break up a uric acid stone. They are the one stone that can be broken up. "Jill, you're saying that a lot of times." I get it, Cindy, but I'm saying it because I'm asked this 27 times a day. "Can I, Jill, break up my calcium ox-" No, you can't. Uric acid stones, you can. So, that's great, Bruce. Now, I would love to see a urine collection on you because it's typically not just pH and citrate. Other things going on. Could be you were eating high oxalate foods, too. Could be you weren't drinking enough water. Could be, especially if you're on keto or a low-carb diet, you're eating too much salt now. There's so many things that go into it, And nobody can really prevent a kidney stone without knowing what your urine is telling you. The urine collection will give you the answers and the insight you need to prevent new stones. Now, one could say, "Well, my doctor won't order it," and I'm going to tell you, push, please. I want you all to tell the doctor this: "Doctor, I know you said I don't need it for the first stone, but I really don't want to make a second one, and I'd really like to get on my dietary changes now before I do make another one." And so, when the doctor hears that you're motivated and you're going to make the lifestyle changes needed to prevent them, I've never had a doctor say no after the patient pushed, after I've prompted the patient what to say. Then, they say yes. And I would really, if I were you, because none of you want to go through a second stone, push for that, please. So, Bruce, Bruce, here's also more good news. So, because of my issues from my rectal cancer, I eat a low-carb diet. Also, Bruce, my family makes kidney stones, so I don't eat no almond flour. I will tell you that. I stay away from almonds and spinach. I follow the Kidney Stone Diet. I do all the things I ask you guys to do. That's why I know it's hard, but it's very doable once you get the education needed. So, you can make other things. You don't have to. First of all, you know, almond flour, so you're baking things. I get it. But, here's what I'm going to tell you to do. You can have, why can't you use like coconut flour? You could do that. I'm making a new snack book right now, actually, and I'm making things with coconut flour. So, you could use that. That's not an issue. It would be great if you would email me at jill@kidneystonediet.com and let me know what kind of things that you'd like to make, but you can't. Pasta, pasta, what about spaghetti squash? You can use that. I mean, there's I can find out a substitute for anything you're trying to eat. But, for diabetics, ### Managing Meat Protein Intake and Acidic Urine 00:09:38 Jill Harris Stick to your lean meats. The other thing diabetics tend to overeat, meat products. Now, overeating meat, so you got to realize this, Bruce, the goals of the Kidney Stone Diet, that meat part, The protein, the meat protein part is for uric acid stone formers. When we eat too much meat, and meat is not just red meat, it's chicken, turkey, fish, all of it. When we eat too much, meat products, and fish, That can give us high uric acid levels in our body. Also, it will lower your urine pH and make it more acidic. I have many keto patients in my practice because they're overeating meat, also overeating salty meats, by the way. So, now, they're losing calcium from their bones because their sodium's so high, okay? So, what I like about the Kidney Stone Diet is it hits all stone types. It does, and it will. And, you know, so for you, Bruce, getting your meat in normal portion sizes, doesn't mean you have to give up meat, just eat normal portion sizes. And we have on our website, kidneystonediet.com, the blog, We have, a meat, a meat protein calculator. So, if you put your weight in there, you can find how many grams of meat protein you can have on a daily basis, okay? If you're 400 pounds, please don't use that weight because, obviously, you would want to lose some weight, and I wouldn't also say lose, you know, use your goal weight because that's going to be a drastic cut in calories right away. So, I'd be like, go 10 pounds lighter, 10 pounds lighter, 10 pounds lighter, keep putting that in your meat protein calculator till you get to, you know, where you need to be, as you go along. So, for you, Bruce, Following the Kidney Stone Diet is going to be 100% beneficial to your uric acid stones. The potassium citrate you're being given, also, like I said, is it the right dose? One doesn't know because you don't have a urine collection. That will help if you have any existing stones left, that will help break them up. Drinking a lot of water, all the other goals, the salt, the sugar, obviously you know that because you're diabetic, and getting your calcium needs met every day. So, the Kidney Stone Diet is for all kidney stone types. I just want to make that clear. And, also, Bruce, go, there is a diabetic and there's a uric acid stone video, but I pretty much hit everything here for you, So, let us know if that helped. I'd like to know, and if you want to email me with any other questions, please feel free to do so. 00:12:24 Jeff Sarris Yeah, I think that's so important to touch on, because we don't say it enough, how the diet does cover the breadth of stones. It's not just oxalate, but as you've said before, someone who maybe has an oxalate stone, that doesn't preclude them from getting a uric acid stone, or vice versa, or a combo of the two. There's so many, so many possibilities and why the diet's so important to hit all the bases. ### Connection Between Diabetes and Multiple Stone Types 00:12:50 Jill Harris Yes, and diabet- diabet- diabetes, kidney stones, they go hand in hand. Kidney stones can cause chronic kidney disease because of all the damage it's doing to your kidneys. All of these things, well, they're all kidney-related problems, obviously, but they can bring each other on. So, the diabetes, because diabetics have metabolic syndrome, They can have lower urine pH, and then when they are told they're diabetics, they go, you know, start eating all these high oxalate products or because they're dropping carbs, they're going to overeat vegetables and meat protein because they're taking away a whole food group, which is what non-diabetic keto diet people do as well and still, and they too get uric acid stones, and by the way, calcium oxalate stones. And Jeff pointed out something, that happens often: "Okay, I made a uric acid stone. My doctor told me to go vegetarian," so one does, and then they're overeating all the oxalate products and they're not getting enough calcium and boom, they have now a calcium oxalate stone. So, you absolutely can flip between stones, people. That's why the Kidney Stone Diet is for all stone types. It is all foods within moderation. Honestly, Jeff, I really I really want that to be, you know, we have our goals and I want the last one to be all foods within moderation, normal portion size. I can't tell you how many times I say that throughout the day and I really think at the end of the day, That is why 75%—making up a number, but it's a very high number—why people are coming to me with stones. They're overeating whatever that is for the latest, greatest diet they are on, especially when we take away a whole food group. Of course, people are going to overeat the other ones, right? ### Maintaining Food Variety and Moderate Portion Sizes 00:14:38 Jill Harris Take away carbs, people are overeating the other ones. You can absolutely, unless you're a diabetic or you have a medical condition that tells you to lower carbs, please, carbs are not evil, people! It's how we eat them. The ultra-processed ones, again, in as much as we want to ounce, so it is time To start eating like a grownup, somebody who really wants to take care of their body, not eating just ultra-processed, by that by that I just mean cakes, and cookies, and junky food. Of course, you could have it once in a while, but don't make it your staple diet. I can't tell you how many grown adults come to me and that's what they hotdogs and ham like a child eats, you know? And some people may say, because I've had people say that in the comments, "Boy, she sure is judgmental." I'm not being judgmental, I'm being very honest, and I'm telling you what my experience shows me for now 24 years, okay? And so, my biggest passion is to get as much health into your body as I possibly can, and in order to do that, I have to be honest, and I have to educate you in a way that maybe you're not used to, but I sleep like a baby at night knowing that I really am giving you honest information and at some point, Whether it's a kidney stone that has woken you up, now diabetes, or whatever the deal is, it is time to wake up and really treasure our body and appreciate it and feed it properly. It doesn't mean you can't have stuff here and there, of course you can. I'm just saying to eat healthy foods in normal portions, And also a nice, wide variety on a daily basis. That's all. So, that's it, folks! 00:16:26 Jeff Sarris Yeah, that was perfect, and thank you, Bruce. That was a wonderful question that really, something we needed to touch on because it's so important and affects so many people. And just knowing that you're out there with that question means there's certainly more people with the exact same question. And along those lines, if you're out there with a question that you want us to touch on, want to ask Jill directly, that number is 773-789-8763 and we will feature you on a future episode. But, yeah, I think this is a really good one. This'll be Really helpful to a lot of people. And if you want to dive deeper, the website again is kidneystonediet.com, and Jill mentioned the protein calculator. You can go to kidneystonediet.com/protein. I threw it up on the screen earlier, but you can go there, just type in your weight in pounds, and it automatically will calculate the range of grams of protein per day. So, just a lot of tools like that on there. 00:17:25 Jill Harris For meat, for meat, and that confuses people. It's not your total protein, you're right. So, because that's what most protein calculators do, but we have, this is a meat protein calculator, how much meat you can have, and then have Greek yogurt, or have eggs, all that other protein is totally up to you. But that's specifically for meat to lower your uric acid and to make sure your pH doesn't go too acidic, okay. 00:17:47 Jeff Sarris Yeah, that's a good point. I should update that to say "meat protein" instead of just "protein." We will we will do that, so hopefully by the time you're listening, watching this, that will be updated. But anyway, thanks again, everyone, for tuning in. Thank you, Bruce, for your question, and we'll see you next week. 00:18:02 Jill Harris Thanks, Bruce! Thanks, everybody!