Did the carnivore diet give you kidney stones? If you’ve switched to an all-meat diet and suddenly found yourself dealing with kidney stones, you’re not alone. While the carnivore diet works well for some people, it can create serious problems for kidney stone formers.
In this episode, kidney stone nurse Jill Harris breaks down the science behind why carnivore can increase your stone risk: from elevated urine calcium and lowered citrate levels to dangerously acidic urine pH.
Whether you’re currently on carnivore or considering it, understanding how it affects your kidney stone risk is crucial. Let’s dive into the science.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Carnivore Diet and Kidney Stones
00:35 Impact of the Carnivore Diet on Kidney Stone Formation
07:25 Understanding Urine Chemistry and Kidney Stones
12:12 The Kidney Stone Diet vs. Carnivore Diet
17:51 Conclusion and Recommendations for Kidney Stone Prevention
Transcript
Jeff Sarris (00:00)
Did the carnivore diet give me kidney stones? Let’s talk about that.
Carnivore diet is basically only eating meat, but is it possible that the carnivore diet will give someone kidney stones?
Jill (00:11)
It’s a topic that I know carnivore people may not want to hear. And I respect that. I have been helping people prevent kidney stones since 1998. And I’ve heard all the special diets and what people have done. And as co-creator of the Kidney Stone Diet, my mentor, Dr. Fred Coe is the other person at hand. But the carnivore diet is going to do several things to promote kidney stones. Some people will say, Jill, I’ve been on carnivore for 42 years. I have never made a kidney stone. You are not prone to form them. So you may stay on carnivore diet if that’s working for you. For many kidney stone formers that are seeking out my help that have done the carnivore diet, there were issues that the carnivore diet created for them.
And so let’s go through those today. One of the biggest ones, and I’m going to look at my notes here because I do not want to miss anything. I think this is really important information. One of the things that carnivore diet will do, and for those of you who are regular followers, you may say, just like Jeff said, what is the carnivore diet? You’re eating meat. That’s the sole source of your diet. And so you’re not eating any carbs. You’re not eating any fruits. You’re not eating any vegetables for the most part. And so you’re solely eating meat. And yes, of course, you’re going to lose weight. How much meat can you eat? It’s going to take away your appetite. You’re going to be full. Right. And so you can definitely lose weight on the carnivore diet. And if you can stick to it, most people can’t. But if you can stick to it, that’s great. And if it’s not forming stones for you yet, great. But for those of you who have tried carnivore and you’ve started making kidney stones, which are the people I’m talking to on a daily basis, the number one thing it does is it can increase urine calcium.
So when people do a 24-hour urine collection, one of their values that is studied is calcium. And so we’re seeing how much calcium is coming out in this person’s urine. And so when I’m looking at a urine collection, the patient will say, Jill, I don’t even eat any calcium. Why is my calcium so high from a carnivore? It’s because too much meat protein is pushing calcium out into the urine. Okay? And so you have excess calcium and say you don’t pee a lot and say you have other crystals in your kidney. You’re going to form calcium oxalate stones or uric acid stones, but in this case, it can pull too much calcium out in your urine and that can increase your kidney stone risk.
Jeff Sarris (03:05)
When you say pull calcium, what do you mean by that?
Jill (03:08)
Well, it’s kind of complicated. So the kidneys are filtering your blood all day. And if you have too much protein pulling out calcium basically, or competing for bone space, then the kidney is going to filter excess calcium out that the blood doesn’t need and throw it into the urine. And so when you have too much calcium in the urine and you’re not peeing a lot, that can, and along with other crystals you could be producing, that could make calcium oxalate stones. That’s one type of stone. So we don’t want the calcium to come from our bone and dump it into the urine. We don’t want the kidney to filter excess calcium from the blood and throw it into the urine. Okay? So that’s one thing. The other thing that too much meat protein can do is it can lower urine citrate.
Jeff Sarris (03:42)
Mm-hmm.
Jill (04:04)
Citrate is a molecule that what it does in kidney stone prevention is it adheres to calcium. It protects calcium like a knight in shining armor protecting his lady or boy or girl. And if there’s enough citrate in your urine then it can protect calcium so other crystals cannot combine with calcium like oxalate. So it’s a kidney stone crystal inhibitor citrate. But if you eat too much meat, that can lower your citrate, which lowers your shield, protecting calcium, leaving calcium open for other crystals to combine with it. So the other reason, when you’re on carnivore diet, you’re not eating fruits and vegetables. That is the biggest source of citrate.
And so you don’t have that anymore. So again, you’re lowering your shield. That shield protects calcium so other crystals cannot combine with calcium. So now you’re… Yeah, go ahead. Like oxalate or phosphate or uric acid. Uric acid is his own deal and we’re going to talk about that. But we all have crystals in our kidney.
Jeff Sarris (05:14)
And when you say other crystals, what do you mean?
Jill (05:29)
We should all be drinking enough water so we get rid of those crystals and not let them sit in our kidney, in the urine in our kidney. Because the longer they sit there, the more apt they are to find each other. I always like to think of them as little magnets looking for each other. So if you don’t have enough citrate, that calcium is exposed and these other crystals, these other kidney stone crystals can hook up with calcium and form kidney stones. So not having enough citrate because you’re eating too much meat and you’re not getting enough fruits and vegetables into your diet, that’s going to be a problem.
The other thing, and this will do it for every carnivore person, it will make your urine more acidic. Your urine pH will go down in the fives. I’ve seen some people 4.7, 4.8, 4.9. You’re eating a lot of purines. You’re eating a lot of meat, which breaks down into purines, uric acid, and then all this uric acid builds up and you can also be at risk for gout. But your pH will go down and we want a urine pH 6.1, 6.2. You’re never gonna get there on a carnivore diet. And so the acidic urine, uric acid crystals love an acidic urine. That’s where they grow. So a lot of carnivore patients will have uric acid stones. So they can have a combination stone, calcium oxalate, maybe 80% uric acid, 20% calcium oxalate in one stone. All uric acid, maybe a stone is composed of all uric acid, but the low pH is not a happy thing for carnivore people because they can increase the risk of making uric acid stones.
Now I want to be clear here too. There will be people in the comments that said I’ve been on this for you know a year I haven’t made a stone and I will always say dot dot dot yet or if you’ve been on carnivore for four years, it seems as though you’re just not gonna make a kidney stone the same as somebody who smokes, you know, 70 years and doesn’t have lung cancer. That happens. So if you’re in that camp, that makes sense. Not everybody will get kidney stones, but for people, so here’s a good example. People will say, I was vegan. My doctor told me to get off the vegan diet and start adding meat to my diet. So when the patient heard that, this is not a doctor problem, 100% anyway, the patient was like, well, hell, I’ll go on carnivore. And then, you know, we human beings tend to do black and white thinking. We’re not going to do that, but we’re going to do 100% that, right?
And so I’ve had a lot of vegans, they made a kidney stone because they were eating spinach and almonds all day. So the doctor said, well, maybe bring some meat into your diet and then they went carnivore. And we already know they’re prone to kidney stones because they got them as a vegan. Now they’re getting them as a carnivore. And these people are like, what am I supposed to do? And that’s where I come in and say, the boring mantra of portion not perfection, moderation for everything and get them back to balance.
Jeff Sarris (08:50)
So real quick then, so the kidney stone diet at kidneystonediet.com, you can find all the details there, everything that you need to understand it. But just briefly, what is that? How does that differ from something like carnivore or something that may, maybe another diet that people are currently in or practicing, I guess. But how does the kidney stone diet change and impact kidney stone prevention?
Jill (08:55)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. So the kidney stone diet, Dr. Coe and I built it so it was a set of goals. And we will say you can do any diet you want. You just have to fit into those goals. So if you’re doing carnivore diet, it will be very difficult to fit into those goals because the other, so let me just say that. So the goals of the kidney stone diet are get enough fluids to produce at least two and a half liters of urine a day. That’s fine. A carnivore diet people can do that.
Make sure your salt is between 1,500 and 2,000 milligrams a day. Carnivore diet people always have high salt because they’re putting a lot of seasoning on all the meat they’re eating. So they won’t fit into that. They could though. They could, they could, they could just lower the seasoning, lower the sodium. The third thing is to get enough calcium. You’re not going to get any calcium through meat. So they won’t make that goal.
Another goal is lowering your oxalate. They will really make that goal because oxalates are only found in plant food. So they’ll make that goal. No problem. The other one is for men 38 grams of added sugar and for women 25 grams of added sugar. They’ll make that goal too because they need no sugar if they’re eating meat all day. So they will make that one. And then the other one is the meat protein goal. They won’t make that. So that’s a problem. They are way overeating meat protein, which is leading to the low citric acid, the low citrate levels, which is adding to the low urine pH, which is typically adding to really high sodium. And sodium is a problem because it too, what happens when we have too much sodium for all stone formers and all of us, first of all, we won’t pee as much. And second of all, it also will produce more calcium in the urine. So again, when the kidney is filtering all that excess sodium, it’s taking calcium along with it. So the kidney is filtering the blood. It says, we don’t want all that sodium going to the heart. So we’re going to take some out, dump it into the urine so we can pee it out. But unfortunately, calcium is going to follow along during that process. And so that’s another reason why, that’s the reason why the added sugar goal is there and the salt goal is there because the problem for kidney stone formers is many of them, many of them, many of them will have high urine calcium and they don’t know that because their doctor has never ordered a urine collection and that is why we’re always screaming about getting that. So you can’t prevent kidney stones if you’re always having high urine calcium and typically it’s not just that one thing. There’s other things going on but that is a big factor. And so carnivore diet? Yeah, please, go ahead. Yeah.
Jeff Sarris (12:13)
Can I just jump in real quick? The protein goals. So on kidneystonediet.com/protein, you can find a calculator. Yeah. And there’s a calculator there. So kidneystonediet.com/protein. And that will help you calculate based on your body weight, how much meat protein specifically you can have to be within the protein goal. And that’s where things become a little challenging for carnivore.
Jill (12:20)
Please go to that article, yeah. Yes. Exactly. And so this is a message for those of you who have formed a stone by doing carnivore diet. So what would I suggest for somebody? How could you really? The sad news is if you want to practice that diet and you’re making kidney stones, you do have to make some changes. So, you know, you just have to get back to balance. Fruits and vegetables, I mean, you know, you’re going to have to eat some fruits and vegetables to get your citrate back up. You’re going to have to lower your meat protein to get your pH back up. The vegetables will get your pH back up. Fruits and vegetables increase your pH naturally and they will increase citrate. So maybe you want a meat forward diet, but it can’t be carnivore if you’re a carnivore person who is making kidney stones. For those people who, and again, you know, at least lower your sodium.
So for a carnivore diet who still wants to do that, I would say you’re really gonna have to lower the amount of protein, of meat protein you’re eating every day. You have to put some fruits and vegetables on your plate if you’re making kidney stones. And the salt is a huge problem too. Every time I’m watching a carnivore video because this is what I do for a living and I love watching all different lifestyles. That would never work for me but I absolutely eat meat. I just eat it in moderation and I eat it based upon the calculator we have on the website because I have stone formers in my family and I don’t want them. But when I watch carnivore diet people, God the amount of sauces, all the salt, all the, you know they are heavy seasoning and I get it. They’re only eating meat. You want it to taste not like something. You don’t typically want to eat a slab of meat without any seasoning. But in most cases carnivore diet people are really have a high sodium diet and that’s not helping.
So, you know, there’s some that if you’re a carnivore person making kidney stones, you got to learn more balance for your diet so you can lower your risk. Now there could be and the only, the only you have to do a urine collection. Even when you do the meat protein calculator, you may be the kind of person that can get away with a little bit more meat if that’s going to make you happy as long as you’re balancing it with fruits and vegetables. I’m not saying I’m the first person to say you don’t want to have carbs. Okay. I mean, carbs give you energy. Your cells really thrive on carbohydrates. So, but some of you may be like, if I have one carb, I’m eating them all day. You know, this portion not perfection that I’m always talking about in diet doesn’t work for some people with certain foods. I can’t have no chips in this house. There ain’t no, I’m getting a little bit and going to have three chips. I’m eating that whole bag. So I don’t bring them in my house because I know who I am.
So it’s pretty impossible to do total carnivore. If you’re making stones on that diet, I would suggest to lower your portions, get some at least vegetables into your diet, do another urine collection to see where you fall. And maybe you can get away with a little bit more meat than the average kidney stone former, but you have to do urine collections to check to see how it’s affecting you. Everybody on the carnivore diet, if you all did a urine collection, it may affect some people’s urine calcium, it may not affect some people’s. Okay, so everybody is different. I will never sit here and say all people on carnivore should stop carnivore. If you’re not making a stone after five years, maybe, maybe you’re safe. Stones don’t grow overnight. So when people say, I’ve been doing it for six months or a year, I’m like, and you can still make a stone. It hasn’t moved yet. If you had imaging, you might have a little stone, but people will say, well, I was on it for three years. You could have made that stone in six months, but it didn’t do anything. And you didn’t know it was there. And then all of a sudden the pain comes.
So all of this stuff is, it’s not so black and white. It’s kinda tricky and I don’t wanna ever push someone aside and say, you need to get off that diet. I mean, I understand so much that when diets work for people and then something happens from that diet, they’re so frustrated and overwhelmed and it’s like, God, I changed my whole life. I thought I was doing so well. I got my diabetes, my A1C came down. Now I have a damn kidney stone. I can’t win for nothing. You know, I hear this a lot, but we over correct. We over correct. Have protein, a little bit of protein with each meal. Get your fruits and vegetables. They really help keep you full. Protein keeps you full. I know, but I’m just saying for carnivore people who are making stones, it really messes up your urine chemistry and increases that stone risk.
Jeff Sarris (17:51)
Yeah, I think that’s a great, great spot to wrap again, kidneystonediet.com for everything kidney stone diet related, but also you might want to consider your collagen protein. We have other episodes, other videos on that. You can just search the channel to find them, but it’s something that you do need to also be aware of because collagen can relate to kidney stones as well. But that’s a topic for another conversation. So thanks again for tuning in and we’ll see you next week.
Jill (18:02)
Bye. Thanks for coming. Bye everybody.
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